Retention and Recruitment Crisis
- Thread starter RackMaster
- Start date
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Transvestite. We need to call these things what they are. If you have junk, you are a man. End of.
So glad I'm out.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Box
Verified SOF
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- Mar 19, 2018
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Too many leaders in today's military are simply refusing to even entertain any possibility that they MIGHT be operating with blinders on - and it isn't just Platoon Sergeants berating the lower enlisted.
Just this week, I sat through a promotion ceremony where a senior leader decided to tell a little anecdote about "service" and proceeded to share a brief tale about a "hypothetical" company grade officer (hypothetical in as much as EVERYONE knew who he was talking about) that had decided to get out now that he was at the end of his service requirement.
Apparently, there was counseling that took place that resulted in a candid discussion that intimated that this hypothetical officer no longer felt that his service was appreciated by superiors. This officer that had served honorably for the entirety of his agreed-upon term, apparently no longer felt a sense of reward for his service, and felt that he AND HIS FAMILY would be better off in the private sector.
Clearly, this fucking pogue was just displaying his selfish attitude and his unwillingness to work as part of a team. The best advice we have for a young company grade officer at such a major crossroads in his career is that, YES - you should get the fuck out of here - we don't need selfish troops that only think about themselves.
Who me?
...blinders?
My troops aren't getting out because their leaders suck.
Troops are getting out because they are all shitbags.
Blind spots?
Fuhgeddaboudit...
...now, do push ups dirt bag
Just this week, I sat through a promotion ceremony where a senior leader decided to tell a little anecdote about "service" and proceeded to share a brief tale about a "hypothetical" company grade officer (hypothetical in as much as EVERYONE knew who he was talking about) that had decided to get out now that he was at the end of his service requirement.
Apparently, there was counseling that took place that resulted in a candid discussion that intimated that this hypothetical officer no longer felt that his service was appreciated by superiors. This officer that had served honorably for the entirety of his agreed-upon term, apparently no longer felt a sense of reward for his service, and felt that he AND HIS FAMILY would be better off in the private sector.
Clearly, this fucking pogue was just displaying his selfish attitude and his unwillingness to work as part of a team. The best advice we have for a young company grade officer at such a major crossroads in his career is that, YES - you should get the fuck out of here - we don't need selfish troops that only think about themselves.
Who me?
...blinders?
My troops aren't getting out because their leaders suck.
Troops are getting out because they are all shitbags.
Blind spots?
Fuhgeddaboudit...
...now, do push ups dirt bag
I was in for 27 years. While I unfortunately had to tell a handful of people that it was time for them to go (misconduct or ineffectiveness), I never told anyone that they were "selfish" if they wanted to leave.
To the contrary, I believe (and taught my daughters) that self-interest is a legit motivator as far as I'm concerned, for military service or anything else. I didn't feel that way when I was younger, it was something I came to over time. To me, self-interest and selfishness are two different things. Yes, we don't want selfish leaders. But wanting the best for your family--or for yourself--I see as something different.
You only joined up for the college money/to get a civilian skill/the enlistment bonus/to get out of your home environment/whatever? Well, that's not why I joined up but we're here together so as long as you do your job, you're just as valuable to the organization as I am. You did your time honorably and now want to get out ***FOR WHATEVER REASON***? Well, you've already done more than most Americans have, or will, to support and defend our Constitution and protect our way of life. You're sure there's nothing we can do to keep you? No? OK then, Godspeed. Thank you for your service.
I hope my leadership was never a factor in driving someone else's decision to get out of the Army. But it sounds like it was for the aforementioned senior leader...
Box
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The military LITERALLY offers cash bonuses and college money to join AND stay. It is my opinion that any leader from Squad all the way up to CSA might need to consider that when they ponder our recruiting and retention problems in the Army.
I am well aware that I probably ran off as many good Soldiers as I may have inspired - and I probably retained a few turds that should have been sent for a joy ride on one of Augusto Pinochet's private helicopters...
...live and learn
We LITERALLY promise people cash and prizes for a little bit of their time - and then we LITERALLY call them a shit bag AFTER they have LITERALLY upheld their end of the deal.
...and yes, I know I am using "LITERALLY" a lot in this post.
When a Soldier (or Sailor, or Marine, or Airman) decides to leave the service after upholding their end of the deal, we should be thanking them for their service instead of browbeating them
Yet, senior leaders still don't see the irony of browbeating the troops on their way out of the service.
BUT...
Here is the problem: those selfish lousy ungrateful useless turds that came into the service, worked off their bonus, used their benefits to ensure that they became BETTER people along the way, and then decided that it was time to end their professional relationship with the US Military at the mutually agreed upon date have already made up their self-serving stingy grubby little minds.
They are getting out.
Sure, browbeating some of these selfish lousy ungrateful self-serving stingy useless turds is a good way to BULLY the ones that are too weak-minded and timid to stand up for themselves - and more importantly, it sure feels good to unload on one of these shitbags that has caused the units retention numbers to dip...
...but to what end?
What about all the other people in the unit that were on the fence that now see exactly how the unit REALLY feels about mother fuckers that don't want to spend their entire lives drinking the poisoned water at Camp Lejune?
Is it possible that bashing those who won't re-up might be pushing MORE people out the door?
Is it possible that the shitbags we just ran off (because they suck) might actually campaign AGAINST people that might otherwise try a first-time enlistment?
Look on the bright side - we have a whole new demographic that we can bribe into service by paying off their student debt for the myriad of obscure and useless college degrees and promising to pay for their gender reassignment surgery.
It'll be fine.
I am well aware that I probably ran off as many good Soldiers as I may have inspired - and I probably retained a few turds that should have been sent for a joy ride on one of Augusto Pinochet's private helicopters...
...live and learn
We LITERALLY promise people cash and prizes for a little bit of their time - and then we LITERALLY call them a shit bag AFTER they have LITERALLY upheld their end of the deal.
...and yes, I know I am using "LITERALLY" a lot in this post.
When a Soldier (or Sailor, or Marine, or Airman) decides to leave the service after upholding their end of the deal, we should be thanking them for their service instead of browbeating them
Yet, senior leaders still don't see the irony of browbeating the troops on their way out of the service.
BUT...
Here is the problem: those selfish lousy ungrateful useless turds that came into the service, worked off their bonus, used their benefits to ensure that they became BETTER people along the way, and then decided that it was time to end their professional relationship with the US Military at the mutually agreed upon date have already made up their self-serving stingy grubby little minds.
They are getting out.
Sure, browbeating some of these selfish lousy ungrateful self-serving stingy useless turds is a good way to BULLY the ones that are too weak-minded and timid to stand up for themselves - and more importantly, it sure feels good to unload on one of these shitbags that has caused the units retention numbers to dip...
...but to what end?
What about all the other people in the unit that were on the fence that now see exactly how the unit REALLY feels about mother fuckers that don't want to spend their entire lives drinking the poisoned water at Camp Lejune?
Is it possible that bashing those who won't re-up might be pushing MORE people out the door?
Is it possible that the shitbags we just ran off (because they suck) might actually campaign AGAINST people that might otherwise try a first-time enlistment?
Look on the bright side - we have a whole new demographic that we can bribe into service by paying off their student debt for the myriad of obscure and useless college degrees and promising to pay for their gender reassignment surgery.
It'll be fine.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Retention should be one of the biggest yardsticks that determine the success of a command tour.
Topkick
Verified Military
If one feels like an important part in a well- oiled machine, they are more likely to stay put.
Topkick
Verified Military
Not untrue, but sometimes a good boss (immediate supervisor) can't out perform bad corporate policy. You could certainly argue that policy derives from a higher "bad boss" though.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Platoon docs are like, "nah, fam, I'm good...."
Another old cliche: If your people respect you, they won't fuck you over.
Devildoc
Verified Military
I am in my fourth job at my institution, over a 17-year span. In all of them I left for better opportunities, and for all but one, just outstanding bosses. I would gone to hell and back for them. One boss, the job I did leave because of an awful boss, was actually fired not too long after I left that position. But I have left other jobs with better pay and bennies because the bosses sucked.
True. I heard some gouge about a former boss and I reached out to let him know he was in some crosshairs. I love that man, and he saved my career more than once.
Box
Verified SOF
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- Messages
- 1,712
I love a good leader that prescribes to the "I will PT you mother fuckers to DEATH if the morale in this unit doesn't improve soon!"
In fact, when I was still just a random Team Guy on an ODA, I had a Bn Cdr that just LOVED being the point man for the MST (Morale Suppression Team) and a Team Sergeant that was not afraid to speak truth to power.
These two elements made for an interesting story...
...a story I will now share with everyone.
To set the scene:
Instead of living on a FOB in Kandahar with the Bn Cdr and Command Sergeant Major, just imagine yourselves in a prison camp run by a stern ruthless warden…
Lets just refer to him as "The Captain" - The Captain was clearly in charge but much like a CSM does the dirty work for the Bn Cdr, ‘The Captain had his own muscle…
Let’s just call our CSM from FOB Kandahar, ‘Boss Godfrey’
- I don’t want to dox my old Team Sergeant so lets just say his name is ‘Luke’
One day we were in the mess hall during breakfast, having a hard-boiled egg eating contest and ‘The Captain’ came in with Boss Godfrey by his side. Tm Sgt Luke had just finished eating 50 hard boiled eggs in less than an hour (boy, we really loved ole Tm Sgt Luke) and we were doing our best to keep our spirits up since being in captivity on FOB Kandahar was almost like spending “a night in the box"
The Captain walked up to our table and asked how we were doing – like a bunch of beaten dogs, we all looked down at the table and did our best to let him know we were all doing JUST great – and that we probably didn’t even deserve to be treated as well as he was treating us.
…Boss Godfrey gave us all a VERY dirty look because we clearly didn’t seem excited to have an audience with The Captain.
The Captain seemed to enjoy making things difficult for Luke and in a tone that sounded more like villainy than empathy, The Captain asked “how is morale Tm Sgt Luke”
As I said before, ‘Luke’ was not afraid to speak truth to power and was not easily intimidated; his answer was testimonial to that fact...
…well, Sir, are you asking to be polite, or do you really want my opinion?
Oh shit – it was on like donkey Kong!
Boss Godfrey looked like he was going to choke Luke to death as his face started to turn red – but The Captain just calmly replied, “it sounds like you have something to say there, Tm Sgt Luke”
Then in a move that shocked us all – The Captain sat down at our table and said, “so, lets hear it”
Boss Godfrey looked at the rest of us with a look that seemed to say, “none of you mother fuckers better not so much as breath loud” and sat down with us as well.
The Captain listened and ate while continuing to up the ante – it was like a game of mental poker – and all Luke had was a handful of nothing - but Luke stayed cool the entire time. Eventually, The Captain had heard enough, and he held up one of the hard boiled eggs on the tray and said...
“What we have here is, failure to communicate – you see, If I hand you men the blunt end of this egg and tell you to suck it – its your job to suck it. Morale isn’t my problem – results are my problem. Morale is your problem.”
Boss Godfrey just sat there – saying nothing.
We realized that we would never escape this prison – The Captain had just sat down at our table and told us that if he gave us the blunt end of an egg, we had better suck it...
…and then told us morale wasn’t his problem, it was Luke’s problem.
Then in the wink of an eye, he finished the last of his breakfast, collected up Boss Godfrey, and away they went. As we all sat in silence, stunned at what we had just heard – Tm Sgt Luke sort of chuckled – well, that went exactly like I expected it to go…
The story you just read is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Now, what did we learn?
We learned that some Army leaders don’t give a SHIT about recruiting and retention because recruiting and retention aren’t on the packing list. In their world, recruiting and retention aren’t their problem – its YOUR problem.
…and they will PT you to muscle failure even if you are on profile.
…and the beatings will continue until morale improves
…and they will continue to wonder why nobody is coming and nobody is staying.
THE END
In fact, when I was still just a random Team Guy on an ODA, I had a Bn Cdr that just LOVED being the point man for the MST (Morale Suppression Team) and a Team Sergeant that was not afraid to speak truth to power.
These two elements made for an interesting story...
...a story I will now share with everyone.
To set the scene:
Instead of living on a FOB in Kandahar with the Bn Cdr and Command Sergeant Major, just imagine yourselves in a prison camp run by a stern ruthless warden…
Lets just refer to him as "The Captain" - The Captain was clearly in charge but much like a CSM does the dirty work for the Bn Cdr, ‘The Captain had his own muscle…
Let’s just call our CSM from FOB Kandahar, ‘Boss Godfrey’
- I don’t want to dox my old Team Sergeant so lets just say his name is ‘Luke’
One day we were in the mess hall during breakfast, having a hard-boiled egg eating contest and ‘The Captain’ came in with Boss Godfrey by his side. Tm Sgt Luke had just finished eating 50 hard boiled eggs in less than an hour (boy, we really loved ole Tm Sgt Luke) and we were doing our best to keep our spirits up since being in captivity on FOB Kandahar was almost like spending “a night in the box"
The Captain walked up to our table and asked how we were doing – like a bunch of beaten dogs, we all looked down at the table and did our best to let him know we were all doing JUST great – and that we probably didn’t even deserve to be treated as well as he was treating us.
…Boss Godfrey gave us all a VERY dirty look because we clearly didn’t seem excited to have an audience with The Captain.
The Captain seemed to enjoy making things difficult for Luke and in a tone that sounded more like villainy than empathy, The Captain asked “how is morale Tm Sgt Luke”
As I said before, ‘Luke’ was not afraid to speak truth to power and was not easily intimidated; his answer was testimonial to that fact...
…well, Sir, are you asking to be polite, or do you really want my opinion?
Oh shit – it was on like donkey Kong!
Boss Godfrey looked like he was going to choke Luke to death as his face started to turn red – but The Captain just calmly replied, “it sounds like you have something to say there, Tm Sgt Luke”
Then in a move that shocked us all – The Captain sat down at our table and said, “so, lets hear it”
Boss Godfrey looked at the rest of us with a look that seemed to say, “none of you mother fuckers better not so much as breath loud” and sat down with us as well.
The Captain listened and ate while continuing to up the ante – it was like a game of mental poker – and all Luke had was a handful of nothing - but Luke stayed cool the entire time. Eventually, The Captain had heard enough, and he held up one of the hard boiled eggs on the tray and said...
“What we have here is, failure to communicate – you see, If I hand you men the blunt end of this egg and tell you to suck it – its your job to suck it. Morale isn’t my problem – results are my problem. Morale is your problem.”
Boss Godfrey just sat there – saying nothing.
We realized that we would never escape this prison – The Captain had just sat down at our table and told us that if he gave us the blunt end of an egg, we had better suck it...
…and then told us morale wasn’t his problem, it was Luke’s problem.
Then in the wink of an eye, he finished the last of his breakfast, collected up Boss Godfrey, and away they went. As we all sat in silence, stunned at what we had just heard – Tm Sgt Luke sort of chuckled – well, that went exactly like I expected it to go…
The story you just read is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Now, what did we learn?
We learned that some Army leaders don’t give a SHIT about recruiting and retention because recruiting and retention aren’t on the packing list. In their world, recruiting and retention aren’t their problem – its YOUR problem.
…and they will PT you to muscle failure even if you are on profile.
…and the beatings will continue until morale improves
…and they will continue to wonder why nobody is coming and nobody is staying.
THE END
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