School/Mass shootings are now part of our culture.

[DC]

My company only hires off duty/ Ret. PD and mil. There are many companies that use this criteria. A lot of us have been suggesting it to deaf ears. Sadly they want the supermarket guard for 10$ hour to do the same job.

Insulating staff,parents and other students from lawsuits is key. That’s a better job for politicians than gun free zones or gun control.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

@Ooh-Rah
School shootings are not a part of American culture. For something to be a cultural construct, the practice has to be common, prevalent, and accepted by the society at large over a long period of time. What we are seeing now is not something like that. The actions of deranged individuals don't define us a nation or our culture.

I'm sorry that as a parent you don't feel that your kids are safe, but things have really gotten better for children here in the USA. Infant mortality rate is down, life expectancy is up, and treatment of diseases that used to seriously mess up children have been eradicated. Heck, not even a hundred years ago, kids and teens were considered an expendable labor force in the manufacturing sector. The best we can do is give the our children the tools to grow strong, we can't insulate them from the world.

 

[DC]

@Caerbannog
I honestly without disrespect have no idea how to respond to your comments under this headline.
Insulate? Maybe not 100%
Protect... with my life.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

This paragraph ....

I'm sorry that as a parent you don't feel that your kids are safe, but things have really gotten better for children here in the USA. Infant mortality rate is down, life expectancy is up, and treatment of diseases that used to seriously mess up children have been eradicated. Heck, not even a hundred years ago, kids and teens were considered an expendable labor force in the manufacturing sector. The best we can do is give the our children the tools to grow strong, we can't insulate them from the world.

Has nothing to do with this paragraph.

School shootings are not a part of American culture. For something to be a cultural construct, the practice has to be common, prevalent, and accepted by the society at large over a long period of time. What we are seeing now is not something like that.

The actions of deranged individuals don't define us a nation or our culture.

But what we do to address these individuals does. And we don’t do nearly enough.

 

[CQB]

On January 1st, 1901 our nation was born, it just came into existence as a nation. There was plenty of debate beforehand, but no violence. The US fought a revolution to achieve what it became and this is a fundamental difference between the two nations. The principle stance after three incidents here known as the Strathfield, Hoddle Street & Port Arthur massacres revolved around three fundamental issues: sports shooters should be licensed, those who use firearms as a tool of trade will be exempt (farmers, kangaroo shooters for example), and the general population should not have casual access to firearms.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

School shootings have been around for years... the population has increased, thus crazy ass people population has increased. They don't segregate the crazy people anymore. Special classrooms for special people, nope they toss those nuttbags right into the mix with the regular students. Making it incredibly difficult for the teacher, other students and obviously controlled environment for nuttbags. Why? They want to treat unnormal people as normal. Social experiment failure at its best.

I blame modern psychology/sociology for much of today's short falls. Yes it parenting, yes it's discipline, yes it's a lack of empathy for fellow humans, etc. But who has been pushing the "don't discipline your kids, unless done specifically like this" bullshit? Who is saying retards are not retards and should be treated like normal people? Who is saying its okay for people to want to change their gender, or worse not change their gender but run around lying to everyone, and then force everyone else to play into that twisted lie...

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good that has come from the proffession psychology, but there is also a lot of pseudoscience bullshit...

My $.02

 

[DocIllinois]

I think @AWP is correct - violence pervades our culture, and from the time of European immigration. The US was conceived and nurtured by it. We're even entertained by it.

School shootings like this one are a tragedy but not necessarily shocking from a numbers standpoint. Just taking the months of January through April of 2017, there were already 1,000 shooting victims in the city of Chicago alone.

Cultural change needs to happen, IMO, which would require a huge amount of work over several generations. I don't know that Americans can stop squabbling over this issue or sending "thoughts and prayers" for long enough to get anywhere in conversations to make that happen.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

School shootings are part of our culture now, they just are.

I would like to discuss what is that we as parents can actually do to try and protect our kids at school.

Recently I was surfing the net and saw bullet resistant backpacks.

There was a discussion at the cigar store a few weeks ago where one of the dads (who is a paramedic) made "blow out kits" for his teenage sons. They sit at the bottom of their backpacks and they know how to use it.

Do we talk to our kids enough about telling an adult if they hear of a kid or know of a kid who write "I'm killing everyone" or similar noise on their social media page?

In the case of the most recent shooting, the shooter pulled the fire alarms to get students out into the hallways. How should kids react? Fall down and 'play dead'? Hide?

Does any of the above even matter? I don't know. But I know that I 'carry' literally everywhere it is legal to do so, and sometimes in areas that may be a gray line. My kids do not have that option, as a dad who is charged with protecting my children, what am I doing to help put the odds in their favor at least a little bit?

This paragraph ....


Has nothing to do with this paragraph.



But what we do to address these individuals does. And we don’t do nearly enough.

@Ooh-Rah based on the thread title and the tone of your initial post, I assumed that one of the underlying thread topics was the impact that this event has on the psyche of parents wanting their children to be safe at school.

Based on your initial post I understand that this is a sensitive and emotionally charged topic for you and many other parents right now. I was trying to reassure you by alluding to how far we have progressed as a society and how much things have improved for us here in the United States.

While violence at schools is not something to be taken lightly, I think we are sensationalizing mass casualty events at schools. We can curse the heavens when events like these happen, but ultimately we cannot control everything. Broadcasting our grief, anguish, and fear only makes these events a much more attractive target for deranged individuals.

@Caerbannog
I honestly without disrespect have no idea how to respond to your comments under this headline.
Insulate? Maybe not 100%
Protect... with my life.

What I'm trying to get at is that kids now-a-days live in a very dynamic and interconnected world. Since kids have access to as much or more information than some adults, I think the best one can do is to try and give them the tools to live a just moral life without fear. The paramedic dad whose kids have and know how to use 'blowout kits', is a good example of a parent arming his kids with knowledge.

 

[medicchick]

Last year my daughters school was set up so that to get in you had to wait in a secured area between doors, be identified and sign in. Even then they usually would just send the child out to you if you were picking up. Her school for the next two years you just walk in and are supposed to go to the office. All the room have exterior doors they use 90% of the time. Not a fan of the setup now. They had police officers at all schools today (as they always do after school shootings) and the middle/high schools have armed guards all day, every day. We live in a small town but this school year alone there was a credible bomb threat at the high school that had Navy EOD called.

Bibby has been doing lockdown drills at school since she started, they seem as normal as fire drills to her. We try to talk about them but at 7 there is only so much kids understand. She does know to listen to her teacher or other adults she knows on what to do.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

Mass/school shootings are not unique to the United States. Bad people will do bad things regardless of the law.

Paris, France
November, 2015
Terrorists claiming allegiance to Islamic State carried out several coordinated attacks in the city, including shootings of pedestrians on the street and a mass shootings at the Bataclan theatre. One hundred and thirty people were killed in the combined attacks.

Paris, France
January, 2015
Islamist gunmen stormed the office of Charlie Hebdo, a satirical weekly magazine, and killed 12 people, including the paper's top editors and cartoonists, in anger over its satirical cartoons of Islamic terrorists and the Prophet Muhammad.

Nairobi, Kenya
September, 2013
Al-Shabab Islamist militants, who are based in Somalia, attacked the upscale Westgate mall in Nairobi, killing nearly 70 people and wounding about 175. The siege latest for three days before government troops could end the attack.

Utoya, Norway
July, 2011
A gunman disguised as a policeman opened fire at a youth camp for political activists on the small island of Utoya, northwest of Oslo. The gunman, who had been linked to an anti-Islamic group, killed 68 campers. Separately, the gunman set off a bomb in Oslo that killed 8 people.

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
April, 2011
A 23-year-old former student returned to his public school in Rio de Janeiro and opened fire on the students, killing 12 children and seriously wounding more than a dozen others, before shooting himself in the head.

Baku, Azerbaijan
April, 2009
A Georgian citizen of Azerbaijani descent killed 12 students and staff at the Azerbaijan State Oil Academy. Several others were wounded.

Winnenden, Germany
March, 2009
A 17-year-old boy shot and killed 15 people at his school, Albertville Technical High School, in southwestern Germany.

Mumbai, India
November, 2008
Islamist terrorists carried out a series of shooting and bombing attacks across the city over the span of several days, including mass shootings at two hotels, the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel and the Oberoi Trident. The attacks left 164 people dead and a further 308 people were wounded.

Moscow, Russia
October, 2002
A group of armed Chechen militants seized the crowded Dubrovka theater and took 850 people hostage. At least 170 people died in the terrorist attack.

Erfurt, Germany
April, 2002
A 19-year-old student opened fire at his secondary school, killing 16 people, including 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman, before killing himself.

Port Arthur, Australia
April, 1996
A 28-year old man opened fire at a cafe on a historic penal colony site in Tasmania, killing 35 people and wounding 23. It was the worst mass-murderer in modern Australian history.

Dunblane, Scotland
March, 1996
A gunman killed 16 children and one teacher at Dunblane Primary School before killing himself.

Montreal, Canada
December, 1989
A 25-year-old gunman shot 28 people at the École Polytechnique in Montreal, Quebec, killing 14 women, before committing suicide

 

[Poccington]

@Ooh-Rah
School shootings are not a part of American culture. For something to be a cultural construct, the practice has to be common, prevalent, and accepted by the society at large over a long period of time. What we are seeing now is not something like that. The actions of deranged individuals don't define us a nation or our culture.

I've gotta be honest but from this side of the pond, it seems that school shootings very much are accepted by society at large, given the reactions to these events. I mean, what will actually happen as a result of this particular massacre? People will say it's a tragedy, politicians will offer "thoughts and prayers", the same politicians will then do fuck all about it, the news will eventually move on... Give it a few months, maybe a year or two for the next massacre to happen and the whole cycle will happen again.

The complete inaction of politicians following events like these, would indicate it's very much accepted.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

@Poccington what actions should politicians take?

 

[DC]

I think in action by politicians is worldwide not just in the US.

 

[Poccington]

Mass/school shootings are not unique to the United States. Bad people will do bad things regardless of the law.

Paris, France
November, 2015
Terrorists claiming allegiance to Islamic State carried out several coordinated attacks in the city, including shootings of pedestrians on the street and a mass shootings at the Bataclan theatre. One hundred and thirty people were killed in the combined attacks.

Paris, France
January, 2015
Islamist gunmen stormed the office of Charlie Hebdo, a satirical weekly magazine, and killed 12 people, including the paper's top editors and cartoonists, in anger over its satirical cartoons of Islamic terrorists and the Prophet Muhammad.

Nairobi, Kenya
September, 2013
Al-Shabab Islamist militants, who are based in Somalia, attacked the upscale Westgate mall in Nairobi, killing nearly 70 people and wounding about 175. The siege latest for three days before government troops could end the attack.

Utoya, Norway
July, 2011
A gunman disguised as a policeman opened fire at a youth camp for political activists on the small island of Utoya, northwest of Oslo. The gunman, who had been linked to an anti-Islamic group, killed 68 campers. Separately, the gunman set off a bomb in Oslo that killed 8 people.

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
April, 2011
A 23-year-old former student returned to his public school in Rio de Janeiro and opened fire on the students, killing 12 children and seriously wounding more than a dozen others, before shooting himself in the head.

Baku, Azerbaijan
April, 2009
A Georgian citizen of Azerbaijani descent killed 12 students and staff at the Azerbaijan State Oil Academy. Several others were wounded.

Winnenden, Germany
March, 2009
A 17-year-old boy shot and killed 15 people at his school, Albertville Technical High School, in southwestern Germany.

Mumbai, India
November, 2008
Islamist terrorists carried out a series of shooting and bombing attacks across the city over the span of several days, including mass shootings at two hotels, the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel and the Oberoi Trident. The attacks left 164 people dead and a further 308 people were wounded.

Moscow, Russia
October, 2002
A group of armed Chechen militants seized the crowded Dubrovka theater and took 850 people hostage. At least 170 people died in the terrorist attack.

Erfurt, Germany
April, 2002
A 19-year-old student opened fire at his secondary school, killing 16 people, including 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman, before killing himself.

Port Arthur, Australia
April, 1996
A 28-year old man opened fire at a cafe on a historic penal colony site in Tasmania, killing 35 people and wounding 23. It was the worst mass-murderer in modern Australian history.

Dunblane, Scotland
March, 1996
A gunman killed 16 children and one teacher at Dunblane Primary School before killing himself.

Montreal, Canada
December, 1989
A 25-year-old gunman shot 28 people at the École Polytechnique in Montreal, Quebec, killing 14 women, before committing suicide

They're pretty isolated events, stretched across multiple continents and a timeline of nearly 30 years.

Just this year alone in the US, there have been 8 shootings on school campuses that have involved death or injury. No other Western country has gun attacks on innocent civilians on the scale or regularity that the US has.

 

[DC]

@Poccington what actions should politicians take?

Politicians take action when it serves them not us. Its on parents raising thier kids with a moral compass with consequence.

 

[Poccington]

@Poccington what actions should politicians take?

If I knew that mate, I'd be a politician instead of a soldier!

Like I said previously, I know it's a complicated issue but something needs to be done. Why does a 19 year old civilian need to be allowed own a rifle? It just makes zero sense to me as someone on the outside looking in.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

The only verbal vomit that comes out of any politicians mouth on this topic is more gun control. We have seen in states and cities with some of the strictest gun laws in our nation that gun control does not work. Bad people still do bad shit and its the law abiding that suffer.

If I knew that mate, I'd be a politician instead of a soldier!

Like I said previously, I know it's a complicated issue but something needs to be done. Why does a 19 year old civilian need to be allowed own a rifle? It just makes zero sense to me as someone on the outside looking in.

I understand and I am not busting your balls brother. Just curious.

 

[DC]

They're pretty isolated events, stretched across multiple continents and a timeline of nearly 30 years.

Just this year alone in the US, there have been 8 shootings on school campuses that have involved death or injury. No other Western country has gun attacks on innocent civilians on the scale or regularity that the US has.

Then its an American problem to be debated and solved by Americans.

 

[Devildoc]

They're pretty isolated events, stretched across multiple continents and a timeline of nearly 30 years.

Just this year alone in the US, there have been 8 shootings on school campuses that have involved death or injury. No other Western country has gun attacks on innocent civilians on the scale or regularity that the US has.

You ask, why should a 19 year old have a gun? I would ask, why not?

If this were a gun issue, or availability issue, then there would been school shootings for as long as we have had both guns AND schools, but this is a modern phenomenon. There a lot of theories, but until they isolate fixing the minds and hearts, the violence will occur with guns, knives, cars, pipes, or baseball bats.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

Politicians take action when it serves them not us. Its on parents raising thier kids with a moral compass with consequence.

I could not agree more on both points.