School/Mass shootings are now part of our culture.

[SpitfireV]

So when schools become hard targets, what is to stop a shooter from simply moving on to the next soft one full of kids?

I would argue that for most school shooters it is rage on a personal level, so it would directed at *the* school rather than *any* school. Then again, what's to stop them waiting out the front.

 

[DocIllinois]

I would argue that for most school shooters it is rage on a personal level, so it would directed at *the* school rather than *any* school. Then again, what's to stop them waiting out the front.

Or taking up an elevated position at a distance and raining down death, in the style of the Vegas shooting?

Or going to a house party where lots of people from their former school are?

Even the rage-infested can work through options to get their terrible job done with premeditation.

 

[ShadowSpear]

If someone wants to kill someone or a group of people they are going to do it. People can blame American gun laws all they want, but at the end of the day it’s just as easy to mow down crowds of people with a vehicle or fly a plane into a building. Maybe focus the blame on the person?

 

[DC]

I would argue that for most school shooters it is rage on a personal level, so it would directed at *the* school rather than *any* school. Then again, what's to stop them waiting out the front.

More like a rage created by some form of mental illness that has yet to be pre identified to prevent mayhem. What ever triggers this when discovered and treated will stop some but probably not all of these types of crimes.

 

[Kraut783]

. Maybe focus the blame on the person?

Whoa....that's just crazy talk.

 

[Muppet]

I don't know what the answer is. Arming teachers? Not sure. Moonlighting cops, hiring veterans with combat experience? Sure. All I know is that I have been to multiple schools in the last few years, some for teaching EMT students in an emergency services program, most for recitals for Maria's nieces. Each and every time, I have gone to that school, with my concealed carry, extra mag and a T.Q. in my person. Yeah, I get it. No guns in schools. Any of these cases, if there was one person that had the capability to stop a shooter, it would end differently.

I have been involved, heavily, with active killer drills, both on the civ. paramedic level, then the first arriving L.E.O. / RAM concept that is used around here, first L.E.O. and first arriving EMS enters, establish CCP with security while LEO's end the fucker and then SWAT level, clearing entire schools. I have also been used as bag guy role, willy nilly shooting cap guns / starter pistols at kids running and screaming, drama club kids playing injured and dead. Each time we all were in any of these roles, we thought, if just one person with training and the mindset had a gun.

Maria's nieces attend a catholic elementary / middle school, just across from where I live. They drill constantly. Key phrase by a person from the office on P.A. system, "the exterminator is in the building". Kids are told to find their pre determined spots to hide, teachers lock class rooms and so on. I posted an article from a cop / runs a training program, Greg Ellfritz. He asks why P.D. does not respond to fire alarms such as the event here. Think about it. It does not take any effort from P.D. to respond, very minimal fire alarms occur in school. Getting the cops started would be a good start. I was happy to hear after I tagged a few LEO's, including our own Policemedic, that many jurisdictions do in fact mandate that their sector cars respond to the alarm but, my own experience with that is.....I am working the township, north or south station, our radios are programed for EMS channels but scan the P.D. dispatch, so we hear P.D. being given the call. Many cops simply say, "clear it out unless needed", meaning, they are not going. Just today, I stopped by my pops place to pick some stuff up for him, he lives in a school zone, noticed 5 sector cars with in 4 blocks, 2 parked in their parking lot.

M.

- Mod Edit....sending you a PM on this particular line, my friend -

- Rah-

 

[Florida173]

I think arming teachers is just reactionary. Issue here is with the federal and local LEOs that doesn't pursue the problem effectively as @Dame mentioned. This could have ended differently.

 

[DA SWO]

The FBI dropped the ball (IMO)
The YouTube post should have been traceable.

 

[DC]

I mentioned the FBI issue in post 58. They had him on the radar a year ago. He posted on social media he was training to be a pro school shooter....yea no shit

 

[256]

I think arming teachers is just reactionary. Issue here is with the federal and local LEOs that doesn't pursue the problem effectively as @Dame mentioned. This could have ended differently.

I know you're going to have a very difficult time criminally prosecuting people for "threats" they make on the internet, over the phone or even to one another. Those types of threats literally happen every single day on the interweb. When you have people "crying wolf" all the time it tends to fall on deaf ears (complacency follows). Two years ago I arrested a high school student (an adult) for posting on facebook that he was going to "get high on drugs and shoot up the school." We attempted to charge him with "making terroristic threat ORC 2909.23" a felony. Grand jury didn't buy it. The law itself is interesting as well because it explains that "It is not a defense to a charge of a violation of this section that the defendant did not have the intent or capability to commit the threatened specified offense or that the threat was not made to a person who was a subject of the threatened specified offense." So in short, even if the defendant doesn't have the means to carry out the threat, it's still a chargable offense. Signing paper (laws) doesn't force anyone to comply. Good guys committing violence to bad guys forces compliance.

So we can talk about LE dropping the ball, missing the indicators and not following up but really, it's all for not. In the end, charging people and following up doesn't protect the populace. Blaming and pointing fingers doesn't stop the kid or adult that didn't show any indicators at all, either. That exact case has played out a number of times as well. So in all these cases, LE is strictly reactive. Being reactive to an event is not effective, "left of bang" should ring a bell to most of us. So we're left with addressing the issue of security and having to do so with an organization that has very little funding room and most of the funding they get is from the population (it would help if the school districts stopped buying god damn $5,000 smart boards). Interestingly enough, when you ask for more money, you're asking the population that votes most regularly (the elderly) to spend money on something that doesn't affect them at all. Back to doing more with less and being proactive vs reactive; arm the damn teachers. Look at what our NCO corps have done with 18-year-old kids over the years. Vet the teachers, train them and arm them. Arming the teachers IS reactive but I think you have to react to start the process of being proactive. Remember too, the shooting was over in 3 damn minutes. The Policemen from other jurisdictions were still typing in the address for the school on their phones before the shooting was over. Instead of Aaron Feis shielding the students with his body he could have been mag dumping his Glock at the douche. Yes, I'm beating a dead horse!

 

[Florida173]

@256
Is seeking prosecution the only option here. What if intervention would have worked? I'd imagine it's cheaper.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

@Ooh-Rah I can't do all your fancy pants quoting so here are my responses...

Question - Whom and how do you propose this being paid for? Are you truly convinced that this would even deter a motivated shooter?

Answer – Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (SPLOST), lottery funds, cut the salary of the Political class I n Washington to that of the average income of those they represent. Only pay the political class when that actually work, much like the reserves. Make the political class' benefits just like we get as reservists as their job should be treated as a part time gig. I can come up with more…

I am convinced that a sniper on the roof of that school, upon seeing the gun/gun case/perceived threat could have stopped the little cock bite before he even walked through the door. I am convinced that trained armed guards or armed teachers could have put the stupid knuckle fuck down and maybe lessened the death toll. Again, as I stated in other posts, bad people will do bad things regardless of the law.

So do I think the knowledge of armed security would have deterred a motivated wack-a-doodle with intent on doing innocent people harm, no. I’ll say this, in all my years I have never heard of a gun shop being robbed while open for business.


Question – Come on man, did you really type that?

Answer – God damn right I did! Perception is everything and that’s how I see it as I stated in my other posts. Protect the White House with “gun free zones”, protect the federal reserves with “gun free zones”. Protect any place where something valuable is housed with "gun free zones". We can’t do that!!! There are perceived valuable things in those places and they MUST be protected by guns. Our schools… well, our children shouldn’t be exposed to guns. We should protect them from violence with signs and expect scofflaws to obey those signs.

This discussion would be better had over a few glasses of burbon so I'll stop here...

 

[Ooh-Rah]

This discussion would be better had over a few glasses of burbon so I'll stop here...

That's your choice, but I will respond.

First and foremost, please refrain from using the term "douche nozzles" when referring to members of our government. Those types of terms distract from your argument and are something we work to keep out of serious forum discussion.

I am convinced that a sniper on the roof of that school, upon seeing the gun/gun case/perceived threat could have stopped the little cock bite before he even walked through the door.

I disagree with your assertion that "snipers on the roof" would prevent anything. And carried forward, would have an asset out of the fight happening inside.

You read thru my post too quickly. I actually agree with you about "gun free zones" being ineffective.

Where I said: "Come on man, did you really type that?" was in response to your saying:
"It's sad to think that Americans value the lives of foot ball players more than the children of this nation."

 

[Devildoc]

That's your choice, but I will respond.

First and foremost, please refrain from using the term "douche nozzles" when referring to members of our government. Those types of terms distract from your argument and are something we work to keep out of serious forum discussion.

Where I said: "Come on man, did you really type that?" was in response to your saying:
"It's sad to think that Americans value the lives of foot ball players more than the children of this nation."

Absolutely, we must refrain from calling them "douche nozzles." I prefer "ass monkeys" or "anthropoid troglodytic monkey humpers."

Back to topic:

Regarding @Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆 quote regarding perception of valuing the lives of football players more than children....although I would not have used those words, I see his point: how much money was spent on placing a quasi-military presence at the Super Bowl? And how many contracted municipal PD officers work a regular game? Yet with regard to schools, everyone kinds wrings their hands and furrows their brows and say "gun-free zone..." and leave it at that.

 

[256]

Where I said: "Come on man, did you really type that?" was in response to your saying:
"It's sad to think that Americans value the lives of foot ball players more than the children of this nation."

Of course, American's don't value football players lives above kid's lives, but that's how it's perceived. Especially if someone actually sees it that way, right? We are all military people, how does the military protect its assets? Guns! Big guns, small guns, guns on tanks, guns on helicopters, guns on ships, I'd bet some guns are fixed with their own guns (m4/203 combo)! If we can understand and agree that guns protect the masses at the Superbowl and our forward deployed assets, why can't they be relied on to protect our kids? I've taught 18-year-old kids how to shoot a 120mm projectile accurately to 7200 meters (I'm not bragging, it's not that difficult). Can I not teach a 55-year-old teacher to protect his students with a gun?

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

@Ooh-Rah I read your post very carefully.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Absolutely, we must refrain from calling them "douche nozzles." I prefer "ass monkeys" or "anthropoid troglodytic monkey humpers."

@Devildoc

You’ve have been an active part of this forum since 2015 and know damn well that referring to members of public office with disparaging names are a no-go.

Your response to my correcting a member who does not post often is out-of-line.

 

[Devildoc]

@Devildoc

You’ve have been an active part of this forum since 2015 and know damn well that referring to members of public office with disparaging names are a no-go.

Your response to my correcting a member who does not post often is out-of-line.

To the first, I was being facetious. If you look at my history I do not engage in that behavior.

To the second, you made your point.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

Here we go...

South Carolina HS student who allegedly posted 'Florida Round 2,' tells cops it was a joke

 

[JSR684]

Here we go...

South Carolina HS student who allegedly posted 'Florida Round 2,' tells cops it was a joke

That right there shows what could have happened IF the FBI did it's job back when the Florida shooter was reported.