Some Ranger Pix

What do you need besides a laser and a light?

You don't need more than that, but those two things take up all the space and make it so you can't have your support hand as far out on the weapon as you would like for a stable platform. Also, with the pressure pads that takes up all available space. On the M-4 you can put the light out on the rail extender and that prevents you from haveing to bring your support hand in closer

I hope I described that accurately...I'm not always so good when painting a picture with words...haha
 
I'm with you. I didn't realize you folks had the Daniel Defense rails.

I usually use a 10.5" M4 and wrap my thumb right behind the LA-5 with my pointer along the left side rail. On a DD 14.5" I put my thumb right behind the front sight. I activate the laser with it's internal switch, and mount my light switch in the space between the top and right rail where the tip of my thumb rests.
 
what goes through the head of an SF guy when looking at Rangers in action? In terms of kit, weapons, uniforms, etc.
 
what goes through the head of an SF guy when looking at Rangers in action? In terms of kit, weapons, uniforms, etc.
  • "They would be a lot cooler if they cut their sleeves off."
  • "Look, they all wear their helmets."
  • "It must be nice to work at the platoon level."
  • "Look at those dorks pulling security, lets go swimming in the canal."
 
what goes through the head of an SF guy when looking at Rangers in action? In terms of kit, weapons, uniforms, etc.

Honestly, they would be looking for pointers. SF is about three years or more behind the Regiment in terms of weapons, equipment, and tactics. At least that was my experience transitioning from 3/75 to 5th SFG. A big part of it is simply because SF is primarily a FID-based unit and considered low priority (Tier 3) while some of the DA centric units have a different focus and a different budget. In my opinion, another reason why SF lags behind is because you have so many voices coming from so many different Groups. It is a huge community and SF never, ever speaks with one voice when it comes to weapons and equipment acquisitions. This is why SEALs appear to be so well equipped compared to some other SOF units. It isn't so much a budgeting issue but a bureaucratic one. That's another post though.

If you watch some of the SF recruitment videos, I've seen some where nearly all of the footage is actually of 75th training exercises.
 
SF never, ever speaks with one voice when it comes to weapons and equipment acquisitions.
This needs to be repeated. Aside from people who actually work there, I think a lot of us wonder what the purpose of USASFC is and why it exists.
If you watch some of the SF recruitment videos, I've seen some where nearly all of the footage is actually of 75th training exercises.
They're finally starting to give Range 37 some more publicity (SFSC and SFARTAETC), but still won't show the meat and potatoes of SF operations- VSO. Long hours talking with local leaders who have the mean intelligence of the average American 10 year old only to go "home" to eat first strike rations and drink locally bought Bombas, then go to sleep on your worn out mattress is not something that sells. I think the recruiting side of the house is between a rock and hard place when it comes to filling 4th Bns and convincing qualified candidates that it's what they want.

I came to SF when the invasions and CIF missions were still the hot talk- not the case anymore.
 
I agree. USASFC is a kind of good ol' boys club where people promote their friends up through the ranks. It is very incestuous as far as how you make it up there.

This is a big issue, but I think you are on the right track here. In many ways I feel that SF has abandoned the UW mission that was once their purview in exchange for the DA mission that all the cool kids were doing in the GWOT. Because of this, I think that it is going to be Delta that will get many, if not most, of the high end UW missions in the future rather than SF. These are capabilities that need to be cultivated and developed over the long term, and in this one area where SF separates itself from the rest of the SOF community, I think they have lost this niche in many ways. The future of Counter-Terrorism in my opinion is two Americans who speak the local language rolling out in indigenous clothing, weapons, and vehicles along with local national soldiers. In other words, the future of Counter-Terrorism is going to look less like the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns and a lot more like UW. This should be the type of mission that SF gets but as I mention, I think that this type of work is all going to go to Tier One and SF will only work the FID (as in training) piece of these operations. In a lot of ways, SF is even more big Army than the big Army. It kills me to say that.

As far as recruitment and raising awareness, SF needs to not only reverse what I feel has happened within the community as stated above, but then present the UW mission to potential recruits and the public in general. This is such a huge deal that I don't feel I can over state it. I went to SF with the impression that I would be training foreign soldiers and leading them into combat. I got to do that, but I was surprised when I got to Group that there are other missions that can't be mentioned here that were the true focus of the unit...according to some commanders anyway. I had no interest in that mission and perhaps this is part of the reason why I decided to ETS. It was like having buyers remorse. That said, I did get to Iraq and do exactly the type of work I was looking forward to so I don't mean to be overly critical.

The UW mission is also multi-faceted, subtle, and decentralized. Because of that not to many people understand it except those who have done it successfully or simply have tons of experience in SF. They say you have to be in SF for five years just to get a basic feel for your job. I agree. I did the job for three years, walking right on to a Senior 18B position. I think I had yet to attain a full or comprehensive understanding of my job and what it entailed. The reason I bring this up is because SF needs to do a much, much better job at communicating what their mission is and how UW works. It's a bad ass mission and both SF and DOD as a whole needs to do more to embrace this sort of "non-military" mission. Communicating how this stuff works doesn't just attract recruits but as wild as it sounds, I think those documentaries, articles, movies, whatever, also are the primary medium with which you influence and inform (most) military officers and policy makers. Think about it like this, there is no confusion with anyone about what SEALs do. They swim in the water, under water, blow up ships, raid oil platforms, come ashore and blow some stuff up, ect... By contrast, people only have the most superficial understanding of what UW is.

For those looking for some examples, read Scott Zastrow's "The Deguello" or Keith Nell's "Viscount Down" for some enlightenment on how effective Unconventional Warfare can be.
 
*ALL ABOVE*
It seems as though SF is trying to parcel out a lot of the abilities every team, or at least Bn or Co should have to various "shops" or "groups" at the group level. Between 4th Bns and the good old boy system, we have a lot of mediocre personalities- whether it's fat kids or weak performers in general.

If all the special behind the scenes stuff that the groups had was at full capacity and running like a well oiled machine, we'd be able to cover all of our missions sets and the existence of tier one assets wouldn't be necessary, unfortunately that's not the case.
 
Absolutely. Those missions that are on the DL are the biggest shit show of them all but they can't be discussed openly, much less candidly, which only exacerbates the issues involved.

I know that they are trying to hold on to those 4th Battalions but I'm pretty sure they are going away in the long term. My suspicion is that they are just trying to hold out as long as possible so that they have some collateral to dump when the real budget cuts start to come, just my speculation on it. I've been told that General Muholland however is of the opinion that SF got way too big, way too fast.
 
My suspicion is that they are just trying to hold out as long as possible so that they have some collateral to dump when the real budget cuts start to come, just my speculation on it.
That sounds like a good idea.
One idea was to give all the Bns D Cos. Delta Co was going to be all specialty teams. The idea went away though, since it would also eliminate 1 LTC, 3+ MAJs, 1 CSM, and 1 SGM slot.

The thing that gives me the depth of ability in SF. There are some dudes whose performance is through the roof- 350+ PT scores, legit IPSC A class shooters, incredibly tactically sound; then you get some who are... not.
 
Cutting the bloated Officer and Senior NCO ranks would be a good thing!!! SF is wildly inconsistent, isn't it?
 
I would hope that SF isn't as good at DA as Rangers are, good lord it's the only thing Rangers have been asked to do for the last 11 years! If we aren't the best at it after that much time, then there is a serious problem. Besides that, SF needs to be focused on the UW/FID piece, that's why we have them. Not saying they shouldn't know how to do DA, how can you teach it if you aren't already proficient with it, but you know what I mean. From what I understand, SF has had an issue with too many guys coming in who thought SF was all about DA, and really had no interest in doing the UW mission. Maybe that has resulted in a diminished core capability that you guys are talking about?
 
SF is about three years or more behind the Regiment in terms of weapons, equipment,

From what I have seen, it pretty much seems like the 75th and SF get about the same weapons and equipment at about the same time. I believe this is because of USASOC procurement, not so much to do with SF or 75th procurement.

As far as tactics go, like I said above, the 75th SHOULD be better at DA. And in my opinion, SF shouldn't give a rat's ass. Just like someone in the 75th shouldn't care that SF is better at UW, or that SEALs are better at maritime stuff.
 
Grizzly DO NOT POST ANY MORE UNTIL YOU POST AN INTRO IN THE INTRO THREAD AS PER RULES YOU SHOULD HAVE READ AND SIGNED UP TOO OR YOU WILL BE BANNED. !!!! CAPISH!!



<IRISH>
 
Intro's up, sorry about that.

I recall reading that many Ranger-Qualified SF soldiers were 'volunteered' during the initial formation of the 75th Ranger Regiment to form the core of its experienced membership.

Apparently quite a few SF soldiers ETS'ed as a result because they didn't want to be TLs, SLs and PSGs after having lead indig platoons and companies in Vietnam.

Just putting it out there:-"
 
Intro's up, sorry about that.

I recall reading that many Ranger-Qualified SF soldiers were 'volunteered' during the initial formation of the 75th Ranger Regiment to form the core of its experienced membership.

Apparently quite a few SF soldiers ETS'ed as a result because they didn't want to be TLs, SLs and PSGs after having lead indig platoons and companies in Vietnam.

Just putting it out there:-"

Nevermind.
 
I had never heard, or read, that anywhere before. I will do some digging tonight or tomorrow when I have some time. Maybe it is mentioned in Ross Hall's book. If true, I can completely understand. A senior SF guy getting downgraded to being a Team Leader or Squad Leader in a Airborne Light Infantry unit? That's absurd. PSG is more along the lines of the equivalent position going not just by rank but by duties and responsibilities. I think that's especially true of those Vietnam vets who were running patrols with their indig outside the wire on their own or with one or two other Americans. Suddenly you are going to drop that guy in a Ranger Battalion to look after a SAW gunner and a couple cherry Privates?
 
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