Some Ranger Pix

I'll give you a link, it was said by Richard over at PS.com.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257163&highlight=Ranger#post257163


Richard - "FWIW - when the Ranger Battalions were being reconstituted, SF was stripped - many involuntarily - of its Victors to form the nucleus of its expereinced cadre. And so it goes..."

JackMurphyRGR said:
I had never heard, or read, that anywhere before. I will do some digging tonight or tomorrow when I have some time. Maybe it is mentioned in Ross Hall's book. If true, I can completely understand. A senior SF guy getting downgraded to being a Team Leader or Squad Leader in a Airborne Light Infantry unit? That's absurd. PSG is more along the lines of the equivalent position going not just by rank but by duties and responsibilities. I think that's especially true of those Vietnam vets who were running patrols with their indig outside the wire on their own or with one or two other Americans. Suddenly you are going to drop that guy in a Ranger Battalion to look after a SAW gunner and a couple cherry Privates?
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That sort of makes sense in the context of history just not common sense.

At the time, SF wasn't a branch or MOS, it was an identifier which meant that the community didn't "own" its personnel. Post-Vietnam SF lost...2 Groups I think (6 and 8) plus 5th decreased in size plus the loss of some independent companies on top of Big Army's push to stand up the new Ranger units which went from companies to full battalions. From a "we need qualified people" perspective I sort of understand, but there was probably some "Screw SF" in the decision as well.
 
Freefalling said:
That sort of makes sense in the context of history just not common sense.

At the time, SF wasn't a branch or MOS, it was an identifier which meant that the community didn't "own" its personnel. Post-Vietnam SF lost...2 Groups I think (6 and 8) plus 5th decreased in size plus the loss of some independent companies on top of Big Army's push to stand up the new Ranger units which went from companies to full battalions. From a "we need qualified people" perspective I sort of understand, but there was probably some "Screw SF" in the decision as well.
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In regard to the first bold: Well, this is the Army.;)

In regard to the second bold: On a serious note, I believe that Big Army wasn't very fond of SF post-Vietnam (Gen. Schwarzkopf) so that could certainly have been the case.
 
Excerpt from Thunder on the Euphrates-
“The Commander-in-Chief of the Allied forces in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, US General H. Norman Schwarzkopf was
biased against special forces units and personnel just like his hero General Abrams. During Operation Desert Shield,
he emphatically declared to everyone that Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm, were going to be
principally air and missile campaigns, backed up on the ground by massed armored and infantry divisions. “What the
goddamn hell,' he was fond of asking those around him, `can a goddamned Special Forces unit do that a Stealth bomber
or F- 16 can't do a darned sight better?”
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I remember hearing grumblings about GEN Schwarzkopf from some of the old guys. I can't believe a theater commander would say such a thing, was he really that stupid? He's a member of Mensa, so he has a high IQ- but he still seems like an idiot to me.

Air assets couldn't do it alone in this day and age, and they've made incredible advances in technology since the early 90s. Flying over the desert at 30,000' looking through your pod is a bit like walking around looking for bugs through a soda straw- you'll find something eventually, but it's not ideal.
 
Wasn't SF atleast able to get in on SCUD hunting missions? I know Schwarzkof hated SOF in general, and I agree with you Etype, how could a theatre commander be so stupid? His bias against the 75th was evident as well, they only deployed one company and all they did was sit in kuwait on the sidelines.
 
Etype said:
Air assets couldn't do it alone in this day and age, and they've made incredible advances in technology since the early 90s. Flying over the desert at 30,000' looking through your pod is a bit like walking around looking for bugs through a soda straw- you'll find something eventually, but it's not ideal.
Click to expand...

His own autobio even discussed his distrust of SOF though I recall him being a little more diplomatic about it. Rick Atkinson's* Crusade goes into some detail about Dumbkopf. I've also read an official or semi-official white paper on AFSOC and Recus during DS/ DS hosted by an af.mil website where the authors go into detail about how even they weren't wanted and how AFSOC found an airbase, built it up, and had the conventional AF try to (or succeed, I don't recall) take it away from them or force them into a small corner of it.

Cheif Balwanz' SR mission was one thrown to SF at the last minute IIRC as well.

Stormin Norman was about as anti-SOF as you could find in our military.

*ETA: Atkinson's books are very good, particularly his Liberation Trilogy which has one book left to be published.
 
goon175 said:
Wasn't SF atleast able to get in on SCUD hunting missions?
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Yep, I think it was 5th Group, along with SAS and Delta.

5th also did some awesome recon work during the second invasion- they didn't get into any Hollywood style contact like 391 did though.
 
goon175 said:
Wasn't SF atleast able to get in on SCUD hunting missions? I know Schwarzkof hated SOF in general, and I agree with you Etype, how could a theatre commander be so stupid? His bias against the 75th was evident as well, they only deployed one company and all they did was sit in kuwait on the sidelines.
Click to expand...

Pete Blaber touches on some of those missions in, "The Mission, The Men and Me"
 
goon175 said:
From what I have seen, it pretty much seems like the 75th and SF get about the same weapons and equipment at about the same time. I believe this is because of USASOC procurement, not so much to do with SF or 75th procurement.
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I cannot speak to the 11B or 18B piece but from a 35P perspective, the OSTs in RTSB is light years ahead of SOT-As as far as capabilities due to more sophisticated equipment. BUT...they each have a different mission set (and funding ;)) as you pointed out.
 
Several of my family members served in the military including one who was WIA in Desert Storm serving as as Army Infantryman.

So I know enough to make that joke.
 
Grizzly said:
Several of my family members served in the military including one who was WIA in Desert Storm serving as as Army Infantryman.

So I know enough to make that joke.
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You gotta be shittin' me. You know jackshit, kid. I suggest you STFU.
 
Grizzly said:
Several of my family members served in the military including one who was WIA in Desert Storm serving as as Army Infantryman.

So I know enough to make that joke.
Click to expand...

Here we go again with another fucked up individual. Kid, quit while your ahead and stop coming to this site before you have your privileges removed.
 
Grizzly said:
Several of my family members served in the military including one who was WIA in Desert Storm serving as as Army Infantryman.

So I know enough to make that joke.
Click to expand...

What part of "Don't answer that and stop while you are ahead" do you not understand?

You are the fifth or so kid to come in here within the last 3 months to tell us what they "know." I think one may still be here because the others couldn't to be told "You don't know jack." They were furious and they stomped their feet and gnashed their teeth and showed us what they "know."

They were banned for failing to follow simple instructions. When you're older you'll understand. Several of us were in your position before and now we see that we didn't know jack back then and had not earned the right to run our know-it-all mouths.

So, I'll repeat myself, "Don't answer that and stop while you are ahead."

Seriously, don't respond. Read more, post less.
 

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