The Army Wants To Recruit Cyber Experts By Hiring Civilians At Rank Of Colonel

[RackMaster]

Don't know if this is the solution. Pay seems to be the deciding factor, so hire more contractors. @AWP want to wear the uniform again? lol

The Army Wants To Recruit Cyber Experts By Hiring Civilians At Rank Of Colonel

 

[Marauder06]

Pay is not and has never been the issue. We could hire them as contractors and pay them oodles of money; they would probably take a pay cut if they came into the service in uniform instead of as a contractor. It's all about the prestige of being a senior field grade officer. This is a terrible idea for the profession.

 

[Grunt]

They would never be respected. They haven't earned any of that rank. Let them be contractors...but, they are not Colonels and never will be.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Contractors work when you have a need for expansion but not permanent placement. This is permanent, as the cyber infrastructure isn't going anywhere.

Honestly, technical pay + a dedicated reserve unit would probably fit the bill here. Let them double time.

 

[Marauder06]

That's another reason why this is a bad idea. We only need people with these skills until we can grow them in-house.

Officers are seldom the "doers" in the military. Exceptions that come to mind include doctors... who AFAIK might be the only ones who come it at field grade rank. If they want to be in the Army so bad, let them come in as 2LTs or as company-grades and let them work their way up. Or make them warrant officers.

This has the potential to become highly politicized as well. Bad idea all the way around and unnecessary.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

They would never be respected. They haven't earned any of that rank. Let them be contractors...but, they are not Colonels and never will be.

Wouldn't it be "honorary" rank though? I was watching an old MASH the other day and a grunt told one of the doctors (a captain) to go F himself because his rank was only valid to other medical folks and he had no real authority over "regular Army".

 

[CDG]

IDK. The military is so far behind the civilian sector when it comes to Cyber/IT issues that it needs to do something. Bringing in some civilian SMEs as 0-6s to help advise/assist the military on what it needs to start doing to improve doesn't seem like a bad idea. Otherwise we stay stuck in the same loop. We're never going to get top level talent in those fields by making them come in as 0-1s or 0-3s and treating them like some boot LT with no experience. This is one of those times where the military needs to know what it doesn't know, swallow its ego, and fix the issue.

 

[Grunt]

Wouldn't it be "honorary" rank though? I was watching an old MASH the other day and a grunt told one of the doctors (a captain) to go F himself because his rank was only valid to other medical folks and he had no real authority over "regular Army".

Brother, you see a "Colonel" at the PX and he is a Colonel...that's all that matters. No one knows honorary from authentic. You want Colonel...earn it. If not, be a contractor or whatever they want to call you. I don't like people having things they didn't earn. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Brother, you see a "Colonel" at the PX and he is a Colonel...that's all that matters. No one knows honorary from authentic. You want Colonel...earn it. If not, be a contractor or whatever they want to call you. I don't like people having things they didn't earn. But, that's just my opinion.

So is that the purpose of the GS? Gives civilians their own rank/pay rates without the unnecessary confusion of military ranks? Example, a good friend of mine recently retired from the Corps as a Master Sgt. She took a few weeks off and then returned to the same warehouse, doing the SAME job, just as a GS instead of an E8.

 

[Grunt]

So is that the purpose of the GS? Gives civilians their own rank/pay rates without the unnecessary confusion of military ranks? Example, a good friend of mine recently retired from the Corps as a Master Sgt. She took a few weeks off and then returned to the same warehouse, doing the SAME job, just as a GS instead of an E8.

Correct! We have them where I work. Many of those GS employees were never military, but it gives them the ability to come back in as a civilian worker. I have no problem given them the GS ratings they rate, but they don't need a title that they haven't earned.

 

[Il Duce]

That's another reason why this is a bad idea. We only need people with these skills until we can grow them in-house.

Officers are seldom the "doers" in the military. Exceptions that come to mind include doctors... who AFAIK might be the only ones who come it at field grade rank. If they want to be in the Army so bad, let them come in as 2LTs or as company-grades and let them work their way up. Or make them warrant officers.

This has the potential to become highly politicized as well. Bad idea all the way around and unnecessary.

Yeah, I've always thought we should go the way of aviation for this - a high level of technical skill and training but focused on operator skills with limited small crew/team leadership is right in the mold of aviation WOs. Still, I guess the USAF and Navy use commissioned officers so maybe the paradigm adjustment does not fit perfectly.

 

[SpaceshipDoorGunner]

I feel like there's already a process in place for this (hiring GS and contractors) and this is just the Army doing what it does best.. Muddle things. It seems to me they could just announce a contract or INSCOM could just expand it's hiring for GS for this issue.

 

[TLDR20]

We had a thread about this somewhere else in regards to something similar I think. It wasn't the same(cyber) but a while back there was talk to this end...

 

[Red Flag 1]

[Q

 

[RackMaster]

IDK. The military is so far behind the civilian sector when it comes to Cyber/IT issues that it needs to do something. Bringing in some civilian SMEs as 0-6s to help advise/assist the military on what it needs to start doing to improve doesn't seem like a bad idea. Otherwise we stay stuck in the same loop. We're never going to get top level talent in those fields by making them come in as 0-1s or 0-3s and treating them like some boot LT with no experience. This is one of those times where the military needs to know what it doesn't know, swallow its ego, and fix the issue.

They can hire advisors to do that, they don't need a uniform.

 

[CDG]

They can hire advisors to do that, they don't need a uniform.

Working on the GS pay scale does not afford the same benefits as being a uniformed military member. They will need those benefits to help pull in that level of talent, considering what these people can make in the private sector.

 

[Kraut783]

Not much promotion potential from there tho, COL forever?

 

[Ranger Psych]

Working on the GS pay scale does not afford the same benefits as being a uniformed military member. They will need those benefits to help pull in that level of talent, considering what these people can make in the private sector.

And that's where we come full circle.

Make them O's, and they'll be operating outside the purview of what officers do, which is keep a chair warm and take credit for go/nogo of their subordinates. Not something you'd be hunting to do with these guys.
Enlisted doesn't pay them what they're worth. GS wouldn't really pay them what they're worth either, and there's nothing that makes it so people have to listen to them, either.

Contractor, AWP can handle that nut roll... just because you have technically competent if not stellar personnel as your contractors, your AD staff may very well just blow them the fuck off.

So, the only valid solution is Basic/WOCS with a technical proficiency bonus/additional pay. After all, when the Warrant walks in with a cup of coffee and says "yeah, um, no don't do that, let's do this instead" it doesn't matter what rank you are, you listen because that guy knows his shit.

 

[Marauder06]

And that's where we come full circle.

Make them O's, and they'll be operating outside the purview of what officers do, which is keep a chair warm and take credit for go/nogo of their subordinates. Not something you'd be hunting to do with these guys.
Enlisted doesn't pay them what they're worth. GS wouldn't really pay them what they're worth either, and there's nothing that makes it so people have to listen to them, either.

Contractor, AWP can handle that nut roll... just because you have technically competent if not stellar personnel as your contractors, your AD staff may very well just blow them the fuck off.

So, the only valid solution is Basic/WOCS with a technical proficiency bonus/additional pay. After all, when the Warrant walks in with a cup of coffee and says "yeah, um, no don't do that, let's do this instead" it doesn't matter what rank you are, you listen because that guy knows his shit.

Yep, you're right, that's all officers do.

 

[SpaceshipDoorGunner]

And that's where we come full circle.

Make them O's, and they'll be operating outside the purview of what officers do, which is keep a chair warm and take credit for go/nogo of their subordinates. Not something you'd be hunting to do with these guys.
Enlisted doesn't pay them what they're worth. GS wouldn't really pay them what they're worth either, and there's nothing that makes it so people have to listen to them, either.

Contractor, AWP can handle that nut roll... just because you have technically competent if not stellar personnel as your contractors, your AD staff may very well just blow them the fuck off.

So, the only valid solution is Basic/WOCS with a technical proficiency bonus/additional pay. After all, when the Warrant walks in with a cup of coffee and says "yeah, um, no don't do that, let's do this instead" it doesn't matter what rank you are, you listen because that guy knows his shit.

I feel like this is alleviated with good leadership supporting that SME. (Foreign concept to some people with rank entitlement) I've never personally disrespected GS or contractors working with us/working within the IC, because it was always clear (or made clear to me) that their GS level came with a military rank equivalent of benefits/treatment, and that they are supposed experts in their field. I can see it happening, but I don't think this will be as big of a deal that we now need direct commission O-6s to address this potential problem. The people that are going to stir up a nest of shit would probably be incredibly difficult to work with as a green suiter anyway.

Sending these people straight to WOCS doesn't necessarily mean they have the capacity to work at the level of a WO anyway. They aren't familiar with BN/BDE/Group/Corps/whatever level of function, and may not have the familiarity and contacts built up that your typical WO should have. (It really pays dividends to know the who's who in the IC/Cyber/INSCOM, etc) In my opinion, the solution for this is to hire contractors in the interim while they incentivize senior 35Q/17C/25D MOS and equivalents to attend their services WOCS equivalent.