The Israel / Palestine Thread

ThunderHorse

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Acting US ambassador to UN: PLO mission to be reopened



I'm pretty sure the last two words mean there will never be a deal.

So I was right, the Biden administration would literally light all progress made in the middle east in the last four years on fire.

The thing I don't understand with this. Jews as a block vote en masse Democratic. And the Democrats in the last 20 years have definitely not Championed policy that works well for this voting block.
 

Cookie_

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So I was right, the Biden administration would literally light all progress made in the middle east in the last four years on fire.

It's probably the dumbest "orange man bad" take this new admin has had so far, and that's saying something.

The thing I don't understand with this. Jews as a block vote en masse Democratic. And the Democrats in the last 20 years have definitely not Championed policy that works well for this voting block.

Do you think all American Jews are Zionists?
Have to remember "Jew" is both a race and religion; it might be true that most Southern Baptists vote the same, but you wouldn't argue all black people do.

Because there are definitely a good amount of secular/ethnic Jews who are pro two state solution in this country.
 

ThunderHorse

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It's probably the dumbest "orange man bad" take this new admin has had so far, and that's saying something.

Do you think all American Jews are Zionists?

Have to remember "Jew" is both a race and religion; it might be true that most Southern Baptists vote the same, but you wouldn't argue all black people do.

Because there are definitely a good amount of secular/ethnic Jews who are pro two state solution in this country.

Yes I know that being a Jew is both race and religion. The secular/limited synagogue attendance types I know are definitely not pro-palestine for the simple fact of terrorism. I'm sure a Secular Jew that is pro two state solution may exist, but they are a minority.

ETA: Based on the record setting EO pace that Biden is on, his entire policy for this term is just "opposite Trump" even if it doesn't make sense.
 

Brill

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Have to remember "Jew" is both a race and religion; it might be true that most Southern Baptists vote the same, but you wouldn't argue all black people do.
What exactly does that mean?

Do you think We’re too stupid to learn about issues and just vote “cuz da pastor say to”?
 

Cookie_

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What exactly does that mean?

Do you think We’re too stupid to learn about issues and just vote “cuz da pastor say to”?

Not at all.

I'm saying that members of religious group tend to hold more similar ideals than members of a racial group alone do.

I could have used any specific denomination and still made the same point; I just happened to have a conversation about denominations at work today with three Southern Baptists is all.
 

Locksteady

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ThunderHorse

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This has not been the case in America for a while now.

American Jews Overwhelmingly Back Two-State Solution
AJC 2019 Survey of American Jewish Opinion
AJC Surveys of American Jewish Opinion

Are you wanting us to take what you're saying as anecdotal, or do you have something more to support what you are saying?

Survey design is awesome, you can ask the question five different ways in order to get five different answers. But the data you posted, some of the answers were direct opposites of what you posit. While some did support your possible POV that Jews favor a two state solution. Generally, it's a significantly more nuanced conversation that doesn't really work well in surveys.

ETA: @AWP didn't see your post. Roger that.
 

Ooh-Rah

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This has not been the case in America for a while now.

American Jews Overwhelmingly Back Two-State Solution
AJC 2019 Survey of American Jewish Opinion
AJC Surveys of American Jewish Opinion

Are you wanting us to take what you're saying as anecdotal, or do you have something more to support what you are saying?
Ya know man, and I hope everyone understands, but this conversation is already giving me the "Danger Danger Will Robinson" vibe and I can close my eyes and see the inevitable car wreck happening in slow motion.

Let's not do that tonight? Take it to PM or think about whether or not this is a path worth going down?

- Locked for 24 hours -
 

ODgreen

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I'm pretty sure the last two words mean there will never be a deal.
"...and Palestinians" can be replaced with "...and AIDS" and the sentence is still basically sound. Nothing good comes of either.

The thing I don't understand with this. Jews as a block vote en masse Democratic. And the Democrats in the last 20 years have definitely not Championed policy that works well for this voting block.
Its true. Most American Jews vote Democrat and hold generally leftist views of Israel. Most American Jews are also "Jew-ish" and don't really represent the mainstream impetus of Jewish momentum; intermarriage rates are well above 50 percent in the United States. Integrated Jews make good statistics, though! Lots of cannon fodder for genocides and an almost repeat-scene of whole Jewish ethnic groups literally falling on their swords when their neighbors descend upon them like wolves. Read a book called "The Pity of it All" by Amos Elon describing the meteoric rise of secular Jewish life in Germany- reform Judaism was even founded in Germany. This just demonstrates the disconnect Jews often have with their host governments.

Do you think all American Jews are Zionists?
The Jewish Agency has funded shit tons of Birthright trips, which introduce/indoctrinate Jewish youth to life in Israel, and I think this has staved off a near total collapse of young American Jewry's support of Israel; however, university campuses are getting more radical and its taboo to support Israel, so these are closeted Zionists and are few in number. Other than this, Jews are often the most "radical compassionates" I can think of. Jews are overwhelming represented in the fields of medicine; Israel is the most vegan country in the world, per capita. Jews have an extremely strong sense of justice- not surprising, considering Jewish obsession with law. This explains why Jews heavily supported the civil rights movement when not many "white people" would touch it, and also explains why Jews heavily support Palestinians except in this case they don't fully grasp the situation and are just fooled into taking up a cause they know almost nothing about.

Have to remember "Jew" is both a race and religion
Yes and no. Genetics have illuminated a lot of interesting stuff about this- I can't find links right now but I implore everyone to look into it if you are interested in the subject. Basically, Jews were very isolated from their neighbors for a long time, making them genetically isolated as well. Our paternal DNA originates from the Near East; I myself am Ashkenazic, and this population came from Near Eastern merchants who traveled up the Rhine River during the early medieval period and married local women who converted to Judaism. Some populations of Jews are racially distinct and even suffer from diseases brought on by centuries of narrow gene pools. Of course, invasions brought rape so Jews were "injected" with foreign DNA periodically.


Why do you guys think "Jew" is both our name and also an ironic pejorative? As an old rabbi once told me: "A Jew gave the world the 10 Commandments and a Jew is the one pulling them down." (Referring to the Jewish lawyer who fought for the stone carvings of the 10 commandments to be removed from a courthouse). Jews are responsible for some of the most energetic leaps humanity has ever taken- Karl Marx gave us communism, Einstein gave us nuclear energy, Sarah Silverman gave us tits and comedy in a perfect package. From Moses to Mel Brooks to Sigmund Freud, someone needs to clearly put a bunch of ancient books in front of a Jews face otherwise they start making communism and nukes. Sorry about that.
 
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