The Israel / Palestine Thread

Serenity

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Well, ‘angrier’ is not the correct word, ‘unimpressed’ is more appropriate. I’m going to get some chocolates and get back to work!
 

Gunz

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The primary source of your knowledge of this topic is a Palestinian friend.

The topic is historically-driven, extremely complicated. It not only involves Jews and Palestinians, but inter-Arab relations, Egypt-Soviet and Soviet-Syrian alliances, monarchies, despots, Egypt's war in Yemen, the UN, al-Fatah, al-Ba'th, the PLO, Jordan, Iraq, Iran and the Saudis, Hamas, Hezbollah, Zionism, the Bible, the Koran, the Cold War, the Six Day War, the Yom Kipper War, the United States and its support of Israel, oil, diverting the Jordan River, terrorism, the Suez Canal, the Straits of Tiran, France, the Dimona Nuclear Reactor, blockades, arms embargos, battles, thousands of deaths and a myriad of other things that have shaped and twisted that region to its current state. Nothing is simple.
 
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Serenity

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The primary source of your knowledge of this topic is a Palestinian friend.
No. The primary source of my knowlege is the same pool as everyone elses. I brought up my friend because I wanted to highlight why I even take an interest. He’s a positive reinforcement for me of the worthiness of the Palestinian people, because it’s so easy not to care. I originally expressed my dislike because I felt a member I highly respect pushed a one sided narrative that I consider propaganda BS. Just my opinion, not being passive-aggressive or just plain aggressive. It didn’t address the actual SA issues - I read the article and found myself annoyed. I then got fed up when there was a single ‘sweeping’ statement that Palestinians are the #1 oppressors of themselves. I don’t know about you, but I find looking back overwhelmingly exhausting. I deeply regret I pressed the ‘dislike’ button in a moment of rage. I’d like to see a better future for the Palestinian people, but at this stage I can’t see a path every time I read the news. I only hope more international pressure does something-anything. I can do without the hate-filled commentary and biased reporting.
The topic is historically-driven, extremely complicated. It not only involves Jews and Palestinians, but inter-Arab relations, Egypt-Soviet and Soviet-Syrian alliances, monarchies, despots, Egypt's war in Yemen, the UN, al-Fatah, al-Ba'th, the PLO, Jordan, Iraq, Iran and the Saudis, Hamas, Hezbollah, Zionism, the Bible, the Koran, the Cold War, the Six Day War, the Yom Kipper War, the United States and its support of Israel, oil, diverting the Jordan River, terrorism, the Suez Canal, the Straits of Tiran, France, the Dimona Nuclear Reactor, blockades, arms embargos, battles, thousands of deaths and a myriad of other things that have shaped and twisted that region to its current state. Nothing is simple.
Yes. It’s complicated and that is all I expect people to acknowledge before they make their statements. As stated above, and I strongly agree, the Palestinians civilians are the real victims here.

Every time I read about the past events, my head wants to explode. People throw the label of Terrorism on the Palestinian’s side, but from my limited understanding, Israel would be equally guilty. The whole matter of Hamas and assymetric warfare comes across as complicated to me. I sincerely give up. But I appreciate the more balanced view points expressed here.
 

Gunz

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Peace might have been achieved many years ago if the Palestinians and their Arab sponsers had not been so adamant and determined to annihilate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. They never once waivered from this hardline intractable position and they demonstrated their resolve with terrorist attacks against Israeli soft targets and continuous rhetorical and military provocations that were designed to antagonize and force Israel to retaliate.

And that's all the time I have for this futile debate.
 
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CQB

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The Deir Yassin massacre has become a symbol of Jewish bastardry from the Arab side. In hindsight though, it's more interesting. The first is a short film with first hand accounts and the second is a description of what occurred.


The Capture of Deir Yassin

Sometimes the reaction you get, isn't the one you plan for.

"Abu Mahmud, a Deir Yassin resident in 1948 told Khalidi "there was no rape," but Khalidi replied, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews." Nusseibeh told the BBC 50 years later, "This was our biggest mistake. We did not realize how our people would react. As soon as they heard that women had been raped at Deir Yassin, Palestinians fled in terror."
 

Marauder06

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In Israel now, on the tail end of our annual 12-day academic trip with a group of military cadets and college students. In just the short time we've been here, there was a fatal car ramming attack, a stabbing in the Old CIty, and the discovery of two Hamas terror-tunnels. We stood on the Golan Heights and watched / heard the war going on in Syria. The prime minister of the Palestinian Authority was supposed to meet with us, but cancelled in favor of a short-notice meeting with Hamas in Gaza, and narrowly avoided getting murdered by an IED on his way to the meet. My hotel room in Tel Aviv overlooks the Dolphinarium, the site of a horrific terrorist attack during the Second Intifadah. We were not allowed to go into Bethlehem because of the violence (this is a DoD rule, not something imposed locally) and I was not allowed up on the Temple Mount again this year. We can't go into Gaza or to Ramallah because of the potential threat. We visited the town of Sderot and saw the remnants of the rockets launched randomly at civilian targets in southern Israel (reaction time based on rocket time of flight: maybe 15 seconds).

The people of this region--not just Israelis--are living with a level of potential and actual violence that is completely unfathomable to most Americans.
 

Muppet

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As a Jew, I hope one day, I can visit Israel. I was binge watching NETFLIX and Amazon prime on a slow day at the station the other day, watched a documentary on the I.D.F. In particular and I had no idea this was a thing but within the I.D.F. stands a brigade, if I can recall, of non Jews, all Israeli's of Muslim decent. They serve with honor and distinction, both preforming raids, patrols and on the borders, despite being considered outcasts in their communitiesm many threatened with death. I have a couple medic friends from my A.O. that volunteered in country, preforming E.M.S. / in hospital duties under an organization, I cannot recall, that will pay for round trip, a 2 week stay, room / board and security. I have been saying this for years and I will continue to say it. We, as a country, can take a page out of their play book, on how to deal with security and terrorism in general.

M.
 

cappuccino

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I've never been to Israel, but I've been a lifelong student of Israel and its wars and have spoken twice to Netanyahu on the phone...including a conversation in 1991 which was rudely interrupted by a scud missile attack. The ironic thing was that the shortwave radio in our office in Tampa was tuned to Radio Tel Aviv and he heard the incoming missile warning from our radio through my phone...before the sirens went off in T.A.! He had to excuse himself to go don a gas mask.


That is amazing Sir! I would love to one day speak with Netanyahu, he seems like a very smart, and serious man.

My dad was with the 10th ADA Brigade back in 1991 and was deployed to Israel. He was a staff member on the joint US Israeli task force the nucleus which was the 10th ADA. The US had put patriot missile systems on the ground in Israel to try to deflect incoming scuds. He tells me stories of the air raid sirens going off in Tel Aviv and going outside with his gas mask on to just watch the scuds re enter the atmosphere and the patriots shoot off to try to intercept/deflect them. To this day sometimes if an air raid siren goes off you will see him glimpse up as if hes looking for a scud.

My point by telling this is that he got to come home, where we don't have to worry about, or even think about something like scud attacks. For the Israelis, however, they live their day to day lives under a cloud. To this day they have to worry about rocket attacks, bombings, knife attacks, etc. Most Americans, Brits, Aussies, and the like, will never know what it is like to constantly live under that cloud of imminent threat. The Israeli people continue to thrive, to enjoy their lives, work and party, all because they take their defense so seriously. A lot of what they do to defend their homeland may seem harsh to everyone else in the world, but to them it is the only way to survive.
 

Gunz

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Not a problem.

Netanyahu spoke to a joint session of Congress in the months following 9/11, and everything he said regarding terrorism was spot on.

He has been adamant in his conviction that Iran, of all countries in the ME presents the clearest danger, a message that's been ignored by a large segment of America.

He was a badass in the IDF. Took a bullet in the shoulder in the War of Attrition in '72.
 
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Poccington

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In Israel now, on the tail end of our annual 12-day academic trip with a group of military cadets and college students. In just the short time we've been here, there was a fatal car ramming attack, a stabbing in the Old CIty, and the discovery of two Hamas terror-tunnels. We stood on the Golan Heights and watched / heard the war going on in Syria. The prime minister of the Palestinian Authority was supposed to meet with us, but cancelled in favor of a short-notice meeting with Hamas in Gaza, and narrowly avoided getting murdered by an IED on his way to the meet. My hotel room in Tel Aviv overlooks the Dolphinarium, the site of a horrific terrorist attack during the Second Intifadah. We were not allowed to go into Bethlehem because of the violence (this is a DoD rule, not something imposed locally) and I was not allowed up on the Temple Mount again this year. We can't go into Gaza or to Ramallah because of the potential threat. We visited the town of Sderot and saw the remnants of the rockets launched randomly at civilian targets in southern Israel (reaction time based on rocket time of flight: maybe 15 seconds).

The people of this region--not just Israelis--are living with a level of potential and actual violence that is completely unfathomable to most Americans.

Great post.
 

cappuccino

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Not a problem.

Netanyahu spoke to a joint session of Congress in the months following 9/11, and everything he said regarding terrorism was spot on.

He has been adamant in his conviction that Iran, of all countries in the ME presents the clearest danger, a message that's been ignored by a large segment of America.

He was a badass in the IDF. Took a bullet in the shoulder in the War of Attrition in '72.

Wow, today I definitely learned. I had no idea that fought in the War of Attrition, let alone that he took a bullet. He definitely has had an impressive career serving the country of Israel.

That is what bothers me about a lot of people, especially politicians, here in the west. No one seems to listen to what Israel and her representatives have been saying. Israel is right there surrounded by these nations, receiving direct threats from them. Yet, many people here in America act like they know better than Israel, and try to claim Israel is wrong in what they are doing. I think people need to really start listening to what Israel has to say, especially if we truly want to prevent further conflict. They, more than anyone, knows what Iran is truly capable of. Lets not forget it was Israel that supposedly helped the US put Stuxnet into the Iranian nuclear program systems to slow it down.

As for the Palestinians, I don't want to lump all of them in with their corrupt "government" but it is hard not to. There seems to be such a strong anti-Israel theme among the Palestinian people that it blinds them. Maybe the world would be more open to listening if the Palestinian Authority would stop paying the families of people who kill Americans/Israelis. If they really want to be taken seriously then they should stop supporting terrorism, stop advocating for the death of Israelis, and stop burning flags/rioting in the Gaza Strip.

That's just my $0.02 for whatever it's worth.
 

757

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UAE, Israel reach historic peace deal - Middle East

UAE, Israel reach historic peace deal
Israel to freeze sovereignty plan, after Trump admin. brokers peace deal between Israel and United Arab Emirates, normalizing relations

I am cautiously optimistic, but this seems like a step in the right direction :D Arabic countries, don't typically do this in the open.
 

AWP

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The UK is onboard with the Abraham Accord. (nice phrasing)

Britain adds its support for Abraham Accord to boost reconciliation efforts

Britain has welcomed the Abraham Accord between the UAE, Israel and US as a step toward regional stability.

Talks between Anwar Gargash, UAE Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, and his London counterpart James Cleverly, the Middle East minister at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office focused on the impact of the agreement.

Mr Cleverly said the government viewed the accord as an historic step.
 
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