The Turkey-Russia Incident

[Ooh-Rah]

So is this as much of an "oh fuck, this ain't a good thing" moment as I think it is?

Russian Plane Shot down by Turkey, Aircrew Potentially Captured | SOFREP

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Update -

Turkey shoots down RUSSIAN jet on Syrian border, video show dead pilot

 

[Red-Dot]

E

Update -

Turkey shoots down RUSSIAN jet on Syrian border, video show dead pilot

Echos of Blackhawk down. Any pilot going down in that no mans land will not have a favorable outcome.

 

[AWP]

The Russians have repeatedly violated Turkish airspace and were repeatedly warned not to do it again. Putin is a habitual linestepper and the Russians have repeatedly pushed the envelope here. This should come as no surprise to anyone. If anything, I'm surprised it took this long.

 

[Devildoc]

....and seems that old-style posturing with bombers is passe' now as Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft. The article I read said that the Turks warned them "10 times in 5 minutes" that they were in Turkish airspace.

So far Putin seems to be exercising appropriate restraint.

 

[104TN]

The Russians have repeatedly violated Turkish airspace and were repeatedly warned not to do it again. Putin is a habitual linestepper and the Russians have repeatedly pushed the envelope here. This should come as no surprise to anyone. If anything, I'm surprised it took this long.

At some point NATO is going to become a factor in one of these "incidents".

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!

It's starting to look a lot like WW3, every time I read the news...

I've often wondered if the Russian pilots were intentionally fucking with the Turkish border, or if they are just actually that bad at navigation.

 

[AWP]

The Russians also lost a helo or had one seriously damaged today.

If Putin doesn't do something he'll look weak.

 

[AWP]

Turkey smokes a Russian plane. "Pari-what? Pari-who?" Done, this never happened.

 

[Phoenix15]

Russian media claiming the plane was shot down less than a mile over the Turkish border. For those who know the standard progression of in flight comms-to-shoot down: how likely is it that the su-24 was only 1 mile over the border? those things haul ass, yes?

And thought I'd ask if we're still flying F-22's over syria since russian air systems have moved in. Not that we wouldn't fly in fear of being shot down, but I'd assume we wouldn't want them to get a chance at figuring out that baby's RCS.

Mod edit.

 

[Gunz]

Putin's pissed. He'll rant and rave but would he risk retaliation against a NATO member, especially since it looks like the pilot was warned 10 times? With everything he has on the front burner in Syria right now, why would he want to start shit with NATO?

It seems to me that of all the participants in the largely ineffective air war against ISIL, Russia's on the verge of being the first to go in with ground troops. They're backing a government-in-place (admittedly an embattled one) but one that has the best chance of filling the infrastructure void once ISIL is defeated.

 

[Blizzard]

....and seems that old-style posturing with bombers is passe' now as Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft. The article I read said that the Turks warned them "10 times in 5 minutes" that they were in Turkish airspace.

Play with fire and you're bound to get burned.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I fucking hate this uncoordinated cluster fuck situation. All of these planes and helicopters flying through the air space over there, something like this was bound to happen, it's going to get really ugly when it is us who takes out a Russian jet or vice a versa.

I feel like the brain wizards of ISIS are in a cave somewhere giggling their asses off, because they are getting exactly what they want.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I agree, and think it would be very easy to get coordinated.

 

[AWP]

And thought I'd ask if we're still flying f-22's over syria since russian air systems have moved in. Not that we wouldn't fly in fear of being shot down, but I'd assume we wouldn't want them to get a chance at figuring out that baby's RCS.

Think about what you just asked and why that should be public knowledge? We're flying -22's in the theater and if the Air Force is discussing more than that, so be it. Yes, the Russians have ADA on top of the Syrian systems.

 

[AWP]

I fucking hate this uncoordinated cluster fuck situation. All of these planes and helicopters flying through the air space over there, something like this was bound to happen, it's going to get really ugly when it is us who takes out a Russian jet or vice a versa.

I agree, and think it would be very easy to get coordinated.

I don't think you guys know how that portion of an air war is handled. I'm not trying to be a dick or rude (for once), but we have an entire facility with dozens and dozens of people whose job it is to manage the airspace. Limitations on "uncontrolled" airspaces are 100% Iraqi, Syrian, Russian, and Turkish in origin. We have flat out been told by Iraq, this is over Iraq mind you, that we are to "request" (ask permission) Iraqi aircraft to vacate a ROZ (think a series of killboxes) in which we were striking. No shit, we had a trainer fly into an active airspace and we couldn't do anything about it. That was on the heels of several incidents involving Iraqi F-16's.

Coalition aircraft listen to us, but other nations do whatever they feel like and have repeatedly stated as much to us. I could go on and on, but the air war is "a sham." We're doing some things beautifully (like the above) which are undercut by US, coalition, allied, or "other" parties like Russia (also like the above). This is a military and diplomatic shit show of epic proportions.

The airspace though is locked down to the extent we control.

 

[Queeg]

..Putin is a habitual linestepper and the Russians have repeatedly pushed the envelope here. This should come as no surprise to anyone. If anything, I'm surprised it took this long.

My ghetto side was going, "Yo, stomp this motherfucker out right here."

 

[Ranger Psych]

Coordination = Cooperation
Do you really think with the commanding personality, rock hard determination and steadfast resolve of the soaking wet paperbag turned half cooked pancake we have as president, anyone that has the OPTION of listening to us, would?

I can think of a few presidents prior to this one that would have been man enough to flat out call up Putin and go "YO, you want to hit them and keep your birds straight? Let's work together on something other than the ISS for once" and figure the shit out. Hell, maybe actually make a new friend since sometimes, you find out how good a friend really is when you're back to back in a barfight.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Coordination = Cooperation
Do you really think with the commanding personality, rock hard determination and steadfast resolve of the soaking wet paperbag turned half cooked pancake we have as president, anyone that has the OPTION of listening to us, would?

I can think of a few presidents prior to this one that would have been man enough to flat out call up Putin and go "YO, you want to hit them and keep your birds straight? Let's work together on something other than the ISS for once" and figure the shit out. Hell, maybe actually make a new friend since sometimes, you find out how good a friend really is when you're back to back in a barfight.

The second paragraph is what I was thinking. Just sit down hammer out the bullshit and work together on it. Obama may not be able to do it, but he is on his way out the door.

@Freefalling, no I do not know how air traffic control or air space coordination works. I'm not in the loop on what's taking place over there in the air. Just seems to me that, you have a bunch of different governments dropping bombs and not much understanding and or coordination between all involved.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@Freefalling, no I do not know how air traffic control or air space coordination works. I'm not in the loop on what's taking place over there in the air. Just seems to me that, you have a bunch of different governments dropping bombs and not much understanding and or coordination between all involved

Yep - this is what I was trying to say. Sounds like everything would be fine if all the players followed the rules - but if they don't, things can get a little FUBAR.