This man does NOT like Jocko...

[Topkick]

I don't know this Jay guy, he was interviewing a former SEAL. But if someone can offer evidence of this Jay fella having done sketchy, unethical shit, I'm all ears.

At the end of the day I don't care if someone was a super-elite green seal ranger recon beret, a motor-T, a cannon-cocker, or filed paperwork, if they did sketchy, unethical shit, it should be called out. I hate it when people feel like they deserve a pass for being name-your-special-status.

I respect operators a lot, and some things are understandable, but personally do not like anyone using their veteran status for profit. Whether you were "special" or not. What I admired most was the "Quiet Professional." But I know that's no longer a thing, and I'm a just a leg, so...

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't know this Jay guy, he was interviewing a former SEAL. But if someone can offer evidence of this Jay fella having done sketchy, unethical shit, I'm all ears.

At the end of the day I don't care if someone was a super-elite green seal ranger recon beret, a motor-T, a cannon-cocker, or filed paperwork, if they did sketchy, unethical shit, it should be called out. I hate it when people feel like they deserve a pass for being name-your-special-status.

No, Jay is using Deming who has a hard on for certain other guys in the "community" to score some clicks and expand his platform. He's just another vet trying to use his "special" status to be a wannabe influencer. Deming wasn't in Ramadi with Jocko, so what's the purpose of this other than to score clicks. Clearly he's got an axe to grind, who knows why. Did he do something in the teams that stopped him from making Master Chief?

If you look at the rest of "Jay's" content, he gets like 2k views per video. Everything with Jocko though is doing numbers, not only is he using Deming, he's using Jocko's name to increase the size of his platform. I've seen this before, rap battles, the street, also on youtube in the bodybuilding community where dudes just click bait each other and say shit about each other's families. Everything about Jay's channel is very 2016 body building from the clickbait titles to the clickbait thumbnails, super cringe.

I don't got a side, but Jocko's kids books are legit.

 

[Devildoc]

I respect operators a lot, and some things are understandable, but personally do not like anyone using their veteran status for profit. Whether you were "special" or not. What I admired most was the "Quiet Professional." But I know that's no longer a thing, and I'm a just a leg, so...

I don't mind people using their vet status for profit, I don't know where the line crosses from legit to over-the-top, but I guess like the supreme court justice said about porn and whether he could define it he replied, paraphrasing, 'I can't define it but I know it when I see it.'

Kyle Dofoor, Shrek McPhee, Pat Mac, Larry Vickers, Ragged Edge Solutions, etc., et al., ad nauseum...the list goes on. I think if one's vet status lends to skill sets which are in demand, who's to say that's unethical? But the kiss-and-tell books? Different story (to me. Mileage may vary).

In THIS particular case, when a community circles the wagon to protect its' own when members have accused of doing sketchy, unethical shit, I have zero issues if they are called out, especially if its by members of their own community. Not doing it just emboldens others to attempt that same behavior.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I think this gets back to the post I had in another thread about how a lot of raids were anywhere from worthless to counter productive. And the response to that was that things were very kinetic and people this board called out the author of the study...

Interesting stuff here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777861254897344721

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0162243917727353

Pretty sure that's not what COIN was about guys, but glad the dudes who shouldn't be deep inland got to keep whacking dudes.

But real question, why do you give Eric Deming the benefit of the doubt and not Jacko? Because of things you "heard?"

A lot of things SOF do are not exactly kosher on the regular side. Why they get authorization for that shit is unclear. But whatever.

 

[Devildoc]

But real question, why do you give Eric Deming the benefit of the doubt and not Jacko? Because of things you "heard?"

A lot of things SOF do are not exactly kosher on the regular side. Why they get authorization for that shit is unclear. But whatever.

I don't mind working in the margins or the gray area, but I do mind people doing bad things and covering it under the guise of "I'm special."

But to answer your question, I realize you don't me so I don't deserve the benefit of any doubt for owning any critical thinking skills or ability to do research and verification of sources, maybe the things "I heard" are important to me.

 

[ThunderHorse]

The veteran "community" and those within SOF are probably the best at tearing each other down. So, I question Deming's motives for this and his motives for his crusade.

You mentioned calling out people when a "community" has circled its wagons. Maybe Jocko is just a good guy? I don't know. I listen to his podcast from time to time.

Jay the host is just trying to use Deming and Jocko's name to grow his idiot brand.

So yes, I presume influencers are shallow MFers.

In regards to Red Wings specifically, I think by now everyone knows it was a shit operation that got a bunch of guys killed. Yes it made Luttrell famous with his book, but how many holes and broken bones you gonna take before you try and write a best seller. Seems amongst the SEALS you write a book without ever doing anything and you'll get a $1M advance.

Just saying this smells like bodybuilding influencer drama from 2016. Legit right out of the playbook.

 

[AWP]

I think this gets back to the post I had in another thread about how a lot of raids were anywhere from worthless to counter productive. And the response to that was that things were very kinetic and people this board called out the author of the study...


But real question, why do you give Eric Deming the benefit of the doubt and not Jacko? Because of things you "heard?"

A lot of things SOF do are not exactly kosher on the regular side. Why they get authorization for that shit is unclear. But whatever.

I just heard a Shawn Ryan episode where he interviewed a former SEAL turned YouTube guy (MrBallen). Ballen (John Allen) was with ST2 and they relieved another team, the number escapes me. His account is that a number of raids conducted by both teams, this would be a year period in Afghanistan around 2012-2013, were raids for the sake of raiding. Patrols for the same of drawing fire to justify gunfights. He also said a lot of those were approved because his leadership was really good at writing CONOPS. I've spoken to Army SF and an EOD Tech assigned to Team 2 in Afghanistan, 2005-ish, where CONOPS were king. If you couldn't write one, your team stayed home.

I tend to believe Deming, but that doesn't mean Jocko can't rebut Deming's assertions. Jocko did just that and the one really sus thing about Deming's story is he cites 36 dead as a result of Jocko's task unit, but there were only 17 dead from that deployment and 5 or 6 of those were before Jocko arrived in country; the dead in this case are 3/8 Marines. Deming not doing his due diligence is a huge flag. Even if he's right about some of the facts, he missed an easily checked stat which undermines his credibility.

That said, the Luttrell story was known to be BS from the beginning. DEVGRU's handling of Chapman both day of and years later during the MOH process is rage inducing. I believe Kyle's abuse of his wife was previously discussed elsewhere.

"Smoke/ fire" and all that stuff. I think both parties be it Jocko/ Deming or SEALs/ Deming have some facts right and some facts wrong. I tend to believe Deming, but recognize his sources need to step forward and end this he said/ he said crap.

I find it really interesting though that Tim Szymanski's name pops up everywhere when there's a scandal or lie or coverup. People focus on Jocko, but what about that guy? He's a retired 3 star and no one is looking into him? Odd.

ETA: spelling