Thoughts on mixing types of training

[Jay]

Right now I'm training at CF East Cobb which is SOF Veteran owned near Atlanta, the WOD's are usually right around an hour long. Sometimes they work in strength prior to a metcon, sometimes they don't. I like involving strength at least 4 days a week. That's just personal. Little bit of info, I'm 6'1", usually around 215lbs(could probably afford to lose 10-15lbs). Up until this week I've pretty much eaten whatever(pizza, five guys burgers, fries, beer, taco's...you the point). I'm working on eating more lean meat more often, carbs, good fat's, fruit's, veggies etc. I drink a stupid amount of water every day. I swim a couple of days a week, run a few days and ruck maybe once a week. I just started involving rowing more as well. This is all in prep for a potential shot at RASP.

With that said, not a ton of strength training and a lot of my strength is starting to drop and I'm considering throwing in some strength and conditioning on top of everything else. My question, is this too much training throughout the week? I sleep 7-8 hours a night, work usually 9 hours a day. I workout before and after work most days in the week.

I've got a picture of yesterday's WOD which is a pretty normal day. (Large tires were 300lbs..that sucked).

The link below is what I started this week to up my strength over the next 8 weeks.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0DL9J4Bi6RlMlAwbU1oWWZHcEU/edit

 

[Lycurgus]

I would not add any more workouts. Your strength is decreasing because the amount of training you are doing now. Realize your ultimate goal is to make it through RASP, so do what you need to do to prepare for that. The more I run and swim, my strength takes a hit, but those activities are part of my job and are important to me.

 

[ZmanTX]

One way I've had success in making gains as far as strength and conditioning is doing circuits or WODs that were long(preferably 6-10 rounds) then having four to five exercises at a rep range of 3-6. Your motor is constantly going and you are lifting heavier weight in smaller portions. Also the benefit with this is your form doesn't get sacrificed as much as it would with WODs with more reps.

I'd suggest you shoot a pm to one of the Rangers on the board though, maybe seek advice from them.

Good luck!

 

[RustyShackleford]

Before I started following Rob Shaul's work, my workouts typically consisted of three days (M-W-F) of heavy lifts followed by a metcon that was typically 15-25 minutes in length. Tuesday and thursdays were reserved for stamina or work capacity efforts. The weekends were and still are reserved for drinking, walking up and down mountains, races, etc. That's when I was probably at my strongest and could still run longer distances pretty well given the lack of running overall.

While there are folks on here who have a ton more knowledge regarding physical fitness, I will still toss my .02 out there. Continue to focus on your diet and maintain a good solid strength and conditioning base until you are six weeks or so out from RASP, then start focusing on selection based events. Listen to your body (but don't be a pussy about it), get enough sleep, don't overtrain, and make sure you rest.

 

[ZmanTX]

Before I started following Rob Shaul's work, my workouts typically consisted of three days (M-W-F) of heavy lifts followed by a metcon that was typically 15-25 minutes in length. Tuesday and thursdays were reserved for stamina or work capacity efforts. The weekends were and still are reserved for drinking, walking up and down mountains, races, etc. That's when I was probably at my strongest and could still run longer distances pretty well given the lack of running overall.

While there are folks on here who have a ton more knowledge regarding physical fitness, I will still toss my .02 out there. Continue to focus on your diet and maintain a good solid strength and conditioning base until you are six weeks or so out from RASP, then start focusing on selection based events. Listen to your body (but don't be a pussy about it), get enough sleep, don't overtrain, and make sure you rest.

If you don't mind me asking when would you ruck? On tues Thursday?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I guess it depends on your training and approach. You could ruck on Tuesday or Thursday or add a six day in and do it on Saturday. For me, it depends on how much you are beating yourself up during the week.

 

[ZmanTX]

Makes sense. Just wondering... I'be seen some workouts(can't remember specifically I think Rescue Athlete) were they'd actually implement ruck marching within the circuit routine. Some pretty intense stuff. Thanks for the info.

 

[DAVE101]

It's hard to answer as to whether something is too much for an individual. Everyone has different genetics, work capacity, recovery ability, stressors, and diet. The best way to find out is to try it, as long as you can slowly and intelligently add work in over time. Your body will regulate. Don't be afraid of overtraining, but also realize you may be under recovering if your lifts continue to decrease.

 

[amlove21]

Diet, diet, diet. Fix the molecular basis for every regulatory system in your body FIRST. Then worry about tweaking those processes with noxious stress (exercise) after that. I can't stress this enough. You need to have your diet absolutely dialed in. Well, if you really care about fixing your performance. If you dont, continue to expect poor results.

As far as the workouts, the wod posted looked- interesting. It's the classic CF workout- it's too long, unfocused, and for time.

Fatiguing the shoulder (SDHP, a really stupid exercise in general), then forcing that tired shoulder to stabilize your bodyweight through tensive ranges of motion (ring dips), all while forcing heavy multi-joint movements (tire flips, GHD, prowler) that tax you very much- I don't agree with it.

I ask this all the time. Look at the workout. What is it meant to accomplish? Strength? Nope. Cardio? Sure, but that's because it's 5 rounds of ball kicking. Endurance? No, intensity is too high. This is a pretty good example of the "any asshole" workout. Think of 6 crappy exercises, line them up in any order, make the weight light enough and the reps high enough, for multiple rounds. Any asshole could program that workout.

You wanna be stronger? Stop this poor programming, work with a coach that wants to help, and focus on strength. Good starting points? 5-3-1, texas method, starting strength and strength villian linear barbell progressions. 50 cardio workouts for the modern day viking.

 

[Jay]

Diet, diet, diet. Fix the molecular basis for every regulatory system in your body FIRST. Then worry about tweaking those processes with noxious stress (exercise) after that. I can't stress this enough. You need to have your diet absolutely dialed in. Well, if you really care about fixing your performance. If you dont, continue to expect poor results.

As far as the workouts, the wod posted looked- interesting. It's the classic CF workout- it's too long, unfocused, and for time.

Fatiguing the shoulder (SDHP, a really stupid exercise in general), then forcing that tired shoulder to stabilize your bodyweight through tensive ranges of motion (ring dips), all while forcing heavy multi-joint movements (tire flips, GHD, prowler) that tax you very much- I don't agree with it.

I ask this all the time. Look at the workout. What is it meant to accomplish? Strength? Nope. Cardio? Sure, but that's because it's 5 rounds of ball kicking. Endurance? No, intensity is too high. This is a pretty good example of the "any asshole" workout. Think of 6 crappy exercises, line them up in any order, make the weight light enough and the reps high enough, for multiple rounds. Any asshole could program that workout.

You wanna be stronger? Stop this poor programming, work with a coach that wants to help, and focus on strength. Good starting points? 5-3-1, texas method, starting strength and strength villian linear barbell progressions. 50 cardio workouts for the modern day viking.

Thanks Amlove, researching all of that now. Greatly appreciated

 

[Hillclimb]

I do the same as Rusty, and agree with amlove.

5/3/1 has always been a base for my training, it just flows well. If not, I typically try to keep strength training to MWF, and everything else between. Sunday is always full on recovery day, unless the hangover says otherwise.

 

[goon175]

5/3/1 is a great strength program, and a lot of guys use it to supplement their met con wod's (typical cross fit). I wouldn't worry too much about making huge strength gains right now, you are going to lose any gains you make now in OSUT and RASP. The name of the game is endurance until you get to battalion, when you can start to balance it out more. Typically, guys show up to battalion skinny as a rail, and within a year or two they have put on quite a bit of mass. If I were you, I would do as much endurance and body weight WOD's as you can, and implement a weight vest when appropriate. Also, throwing in a ruck march every other week is not a terrible idea either. One thing I feel pretty confidant about is that you are going to be ahead of your "competition" at RASP for the most part. Also, get as much mobility work in now as you possibly can. Injury is a killer, no matter how good your conditioning is.

 

[Jay]

5/3/1 is a great strength program, and a lot of guys use it to supplement their met con wod's (typical cross fit). I wouldn't worry too much about making huge strength gains right now, you are going to lose any gains you make now in OSUT and RASP. The name of the game is endurance until you get to battalion, when you can start to balance it out more. Typically, guys show up to battalion skinny as a rail, and within a year or two they have put on quite a bit of mass. If I were you, I would do as much endurance and body weight WOD's as you can, and implement a weight vest when appropriate. Also, throwing in a ruck march every other week is not a terrible idea either. One thing I feel pretty confidant about is that you are going to be ahead of your "competition" at RASP for the most part. Also, get as much mobility work in now as you possibly can. Injury is a killer, no matter how good your conditioning is.

Roger that, Goon. Do you mind if I shoot you a pm with a couple of questions? Nothing noobish, im having a hard time finding the answers online.

 

[amlove21]

...entire post....

Excellent, excellent points. Jay, the common theme between the posters here is specificity. You don't get better for a specific task by throwing random programming at it.

A common phrase I LOVE to hear (only because it's so easily debunked) is "Specialization is for insects."

Well, sure- insects and olympic level performers and athletes that care about being the best at what they do.

 

[Jay]

Excellent, excellent points. Jay, the common theme between the posters here is specificity. You don't get better for a specific task by throwing random programming at it.

A common phrase I LOVE to hear (only because it's so easily debunked) is "Specialization is for insects."

Well, sure- insects and olympic level performers and athletes that care about being the best at what they do.

Roger that. Sport specific is the name of the game. PT, PT and more PT. Doing a run, row, run wod today after work with pt mixed in. Then rucking as a shadow with the Atlanta GORUCK class at 10pm for a few miles. MURPH Monday. Can't wait.

 

[goon175]

Do you mind if I shoot you a pm with a couple of questions?

Fine with me.

 

[booker]

Remember that metabolic conditioning is what will decrease first and strength is retained for a longer period (Mark Rippetoe has a good article on this). That being said, you can afford to decrease your strength training as you get closer to RASP and focus on metcons. The running theme thus far has been to specifically train, so focus on getting your strength up in those areas you need it. Willy nilly shit is fine for most people (i.e., non military types) but will do you a disservice in the long run. Goon's a genius with this stuff, I'd follow what he says to the T.

From Rippetoe (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/conditioning_is_a_sham):

"Strength is a very persistent adaptation that doesn't disappear after a layoff. Once a man gets strong, he's always stronger than he was before, even if he quits training, because the long-term adaptations have raised his baseline strength. Getting stronger is "expensive" to your body, and expensive things aren't usually disposed of quickly.
Conditioning, on the other hand, develops very quickly and goes away just as fast, as most of you've already noticed. A young, healthy guy can get in pretty good shape to run in about 2 weeks. Lay off a couple of months and you have to start over from the previous baseline, but it comes back just as quickly.
A conditioning adaptation changes the metabolic environment in the cells without the need for the large-scale tissue remodeling necessary for a strength adaptation. Condition comes on quickly, is easy to maintain, and goes away just as quickly."