United States & Gun Control discussion.

I'm actually Cherokee.
Ok, so in order to not derail the thread, I'll just say this- the Cherokee were nearly eradicated and then marginalized by a group of people that decided they had no rights because they were a different nationality. Just read your "illegals have no rights, period" comment, and then the one above, over and over again until it clicks.

Anyway- gun control. Not religious preference, nationality, or any other topic. Just gun control.
 
Common courtesy, respect of other rights, property, of their communities and the like. Maybe a play on words a bit, but I agree, people who do not believe they owe that to others, tend to be very dangerous people.
Common courtesy isn't all that common last I checked and neither is common sense. I will return what is given but I will not be polite to a child molester. I respect others rights as long as they respect mine. But I will stand by the fact that I owe no person anything.
 
Polite to a child molester? What? This is like watching an abortion during a trainwreck during a tsunami after an earthquake.
 
Ok, so in order to not derail the thread, I'll just say this- the Cherokee were nearly eradicated and then marginalized by a group of people that decided they had no rights because they were a different nationality. Just read your "illegals have no rights, period" comment, and then the one above, over and over again until it clicks.

Anyway- gun control. Not religious preference, nationality, or any other topic. Just gun control.
So a bunch of illegals from overseas showed up and started dictating to the locals how things should be run the started killing off and starving out the nationals. Not much different than today is it.
 
Common courtesy isn't all that common last I checked and neither is common sense. I will return what is given but I will not be polite to a child molester. I respect others rights as long as they respect mine. But I will stand by the fact that I owe no person anything.
Polite to a child molester? What? This is like watching an abortion during a trainwreck during a tsunami after an earthquake.
So, yeah, as my ever so eloquent brother put it- back to gun control. I won't say it again.
 
Polite to a child molester? What? This is like watching an abortion during a trainwreck during a tsunami after an earthquake.
Apparently I owe everyone something. So that must mean I have to treat everyone equally in the manner that I owe them.
 
I actually don't believe firearm ownership should be regulated at all. Again I'm an extremist on the constitutionalist side. I think if a person committed a crime, did his time and moved on with life, he should have his rights restored and should be allowed to be armed. To the extreme of automatic weapons and destructive devices. On the same note, as I've stated several times throughout this thread and others, people who cannot be trusted in society (violent criminals, mentally ill, etc) shouldn't be allowed in society. Lock them up, euthanize them, whatever need be done, but keep them out of society.

Now where I do have conflicting thoughts, is how can I be for unrestricted ownership and possession, but think its bad idea for Tom across the street to own a nuclear weapon, or fighter jet.

So obviously some restrictions must be in place. However, who and what are going to decide those restrictions. Maybe NewYork'ers feel the same way about AR15's as I do about Nuke's in Texas. Maybe we should leave it to those states and communities to make those restrictions. Well except for the Nukes', lets just ban those bad boys world wide...
 
So, yeah, as my ever so eloquent brother put it- back to gun control. I won't say it again.
That's it I'm done. All I hear here is rhetoric advocating more stipulations on the ownership of firearms. Except from maybe JAB he seems alright.
 
Dude I'm probably the most hated guy on here. Just relax, have your opinions and debate with reason.
I'll say it for everyone- I am almost always 180 degress out from your opinion, but no one here hates you. Know why? Because regardless of your opinion, you're a professional and you always act like one.

Thanks for continuing to do so, you're an asset to this site.
 
Apparently I am the only constitutionalist in the room. Placing laws and stipulations on GOD given rights is the fast track to socialism and a fascist government that controls everything you do right down to what you eat.


Now I know you are full of yourself.

Based on the way the Constitution is written and the wording of the Second Amendment, regulation of firearms is a State's Right, not a Federal Right.

The short reasoning for this is that per the Constitution, Militias are State regulated and the reason for the Second Amendment is to secure the availability of armed individuals for a Militia in a State.... that said members of a militia in time of war may be hired by the federal government to serve in that war for a period of one year, unless the individual agrees to extent that tenure to the federal government.
 
Greater Federal recognition/ regulated rights will come with greater Federal oversight. While that sounds like a "duh" moment we have to think back to the last 30 or so years of gun control. The AWB, finally overturned? Imagine if that were an exclusive Federal power? I doubt it would expire. 8 years of an anti-gun administration (with another 4 almost guaranteed) would crush the 2A if it were a Federal responsibility. The fact is, we're better off with imperfect State control than "perfect" Federal control.

I think in general Americans forget (if they even know) of the massive divide between States' and Federal rights, an argument which goes back to the founding of our great country. A war was fought over them (yes, slavery was key but if that were the exclusive domain of the States the outcome would be different), even our Founding Fathers wrote their own propaganda in support of the Federal argument.

I think Federally controlled gun "rights" would be a disaster for liberty. How often does the Federal gov't relinquish or relax control? We'd have that as the 100% final word?

I'll take flawed States' rights over Federal control.
 
FreeFalling, I pretty well agree with you, except on the area's of use of force, and bullshit entrapment charges. Mainly where it comes to travel.

Example, if traveling through another state, I do think there should be a base line of this is how you can carry a firearm, and this is when you can use it for self defense. Traveling being strictly defined as well. That with a national recognition of concealed carry license, for traveling purposes, would be reasonable in today's society and laws.

But fully agree that states should be the regulatory arm on firearms, with exception to travel.
 
I'm such a goober and inexperienced shooter. I went to a range in NM today, great place if you haven't found it and are in the Bliss area. My gun is some high speed beauty and I'm putting managed recoil Remington through it...apparently I forgot about science and that your powder mixture will have you shooting completely different from the last rounds you shot. re-zeroed and shot 300 yards...if you run into the managed recoil load from Remington, avoid it, as the drop past 200 yards is huge. Shouldn't have to adjust but 3.5 MOA for 300, geeze.
 
FreeFalling, I pretty well agree with you, except on the area's of use of force, and bullshit entrapment charges. Mainly where it comes to travel.

Example, if traveling through another state, I do think there should be a base line of this is how you can carry a firearm, and this is when you can use it for self defense. Traveling being strictly defined as well. That with a national recognition of concealed carry license, for traveling purposes, would be reasonable in today's society and laws.

But fully agree that states should be the regulatory arm on firearms, with exception to travel.

I'm onboard with you there. Yes, certain Federal protection/ guarantees are ideal and I totally agree with the notion. I guess my argument was more of an imperfect black and white. I view the transfer of power between the two as a slippery and steep slope. In a perfect world a limited amount of basic Federally-guaranteed rights would be ideal. I'd love to think my concealed carry in FL carries the same weight with the same restrictions as the other 49 states. I'm in total agreement with you there. Push coming to shove in a binary world, I'll take the State over the Federal gov't on most issues though.
 
FreeFalling, I pretty well agree with you, except on the area's of use of force, and bullshit entrapment charges. Mainly where it comes to travel.

Example, if traveling through another state, I do think there should be a base line of this is how you can carry a firearm, and this is when you can use it for self defense. Traveling being strictly defined as well. That with a national recognition of concealed carry license, for traveling purposes, would be reasonable in today's society and laws.

But fully agree that states should be the regulatory arm on firearms, with exception to travel.

Well, there's FOPA but you're talking about carrying it on your person for defensive purposes. I do think licenses to carry firearms should be given the same interstate recognition as marriage and driver's licenses. I do see problems with a national standard for use of force in self-protection, so I think it's got to be similar to driving i.e. in some states you can make a right on red and a left on red and in others you can't and when you're traveling through it's your responsibility to know the difference.

Agree again. Ill take a little more homework, a little more training, a little more paperwork (for State control) vs. federal oversight.

And sometimes federal oversight comes with both. Law enforcement from any jurisdiction can carry virtually anywhere in the US under federal law, but it's on us to know when state law precludes us from carrying and what the laws on use of force are. We also have mandatory qualifications; that's expected while we're in active service but continues (at least annually, and quite possibly more often) once we retire in order to stay qualified under LEOSA. In contrast, you can get a PA license to carry that's valid for 5 years for less than the cost of a dinner out, it's valid in some thirty or more states and there's no training requirement.

I'm onboard with you there. Yes, certain Federal protection/ guarantees are ideal and I totally agree with the notion. I guess my argument was more of an imperfect black and white. I view the transfer of power between the two as a slippery and steep slope. In a perfect world a limited amount of basic Federally-guaranteed rights would be ideal. I'd love to think my concealed carry in FL carries the same weight with the same restrictions as the other 49 states. I'm in total agreement with you there. Push coming to shove in a binary world, I'll take the State over the Federal gov't on most issues though.

I like Florida's licensing scheme because it isn't just a license to carry firearms; it's weapons...period. That's not the case in many states, and so would require some accommodating if accepted nationwide.

All that said, I don't mind checking local laws (magazine capacity, use of force, etc.) in exchange for the ability to carry virtually everywhere for the rest of my life.

The biggest problem with LEOSA is that civilian license holders are excluded. There should absolutely be reciprocity between the states.

I do see where some of the argument comes from, though. For one, self-defense laws are both more widely varied and complex than traffic laws. The penalties and potential consequences are likewise more serious. This is one of the reasons--licensing fees being another--that medical, nursing and paramedic licenses aren't automatically given reciprocity from state-to-state. In some cases, it's purely about the money (nursing, I'm looking at you); in others there is both a monetary and competency motivation (Florida paramedic license, that's you).
 
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