United States & Gun Control discussion.

[Dienekes]

Which could utterly destroy one's life.

I should have clarified better, but I meant utilizing a firearm in an instance where the law deems it illegal to use deadly force, but it would be deemed by most moral people to be the right thing to do. I meant that in defense of another, but I am not read up on all of the states' self defense laws to come up with a situation that would apply.

I purely meant that repercussions of the law shouldn't be a deciding factor when intervening to save someone's life. The details are different and deadly force was not used, but SFC Martland's case comes to mind. Though, admittedly, I've never had to deal with repercussions of that nature so, YMMV.

 

[policemedic]

I am pretty sure I can figure out when to use my firearm without someone sitting on my shoulder telling me. YMMV.

My professional experience is that many people can't.

This is especially true when people take advantage of reciprocity and travel out of their home state whilst armed. The Republic of Texas has radically different laws than Pennsylvania, for instance.

In any case the benefit of training is not just learning when you can and cannot display or discharge a firearm. It is knowing what to do after you do display or discharge it.

 

[policemedic]

The locations and the rules are covered in the paperwork they give you with the license. I shouldn't have to ask permission (I.E. request a license) to protect myself and my family. I have never in 21 years of carrying a firearm as a civilian or military had any trouble with the police. If everyone was allowed the right to carry as they should be then there would be no interaction at all with the police. I would just be another person exercising my rights.

Once again, that may or may not be true. The information provided with your license might be correct; it may not be.

Case in point. All licenses to carry firearms in PA are issued under the authority of the Commonwealth and all are valid statewide. However, they are issued by the various Sheriffs except in Philadelphia where they are issued by the police. Each issuing agency provides different information to the new licensee. The information pamphlet provided by the Philadelphia Police is blatantly wrong on several points of state law and I spend a fair amount of time educating licensees on those issues.

Trust me, this is not an area in which you wish to be cavalier.

I don't believe in mandatory training because I believe the bearing and use of arms to be without question a right of the people. However, I do believe if you carry a gun you owe a duty to society to be tactically competent and possessed of sound legal knowledge regarding self-defense.

 

[Bypass]

Once again, that may or may not be true. The information provided with your license might be correct; it may not be.

Case in point. All licenses to carry firearms in PA are issued under the authority of the Commonwealth and all are valid statewide. However, they are issued by the various Sheriffs except in Philadelphia where they are issued by the police. Each issuing agency provides different information to the new licensee. The information pamphlet provided by the Philadelphia Police is blatantly wrong on several points of state law and I spend a fair amount of time educating licensees on those issues.

Trust me, this is not an area in which you wish to be cavalier.

I don't believe in mandatory training because I believe the bearing and use of arms to be without question a right of the people. However, I do believe if you carry a gun you owe a duty to society to be tactically competent and possessed of sound legal knowledge regarding self-defense.

I don't believe I owe anyone anything.

 

[medicchick]

I have no problem taking a class for my CCW. We moved from a place that has very different laws to here. No permit is needed in Alaska, in Nevada it is. The stand your ground and castle laws are a bit different and it's good to have someone (I believe the local guy who goes over that part is the DA) go over the details. Some places include your vehicle, some don't. Some places include your friends house if you were invited it, some don't. Some also just mean your property, others they have to be X amount of feet inside your dwelling.

You can read the laws and what not yourself (and should) but hearing it from the local DA, PO or SO, or lawyer can't be beat. These are the people who deal with it day in and day out. It's just smart to know the local laws and gray areas.

 

[Bypass]

My professional experience is that many people can't.

This is especially true when people take advantage of reciprocity and travel out of their home state whilst armed. The Republic of Texas has radically different laws than Pennsylvania, for instance.

In any case the benefit of training is not just learning when you can and cannot display or discharge a firearm. It is knowing what to do after you do display or discharge it.

All state laws regarding firearms should be abolished. Universal carry should be allowed and no bull shit should be taken or given regarding our second amendment rights.

 

[Bypass]

I have no problem taking a class for my CCW. We moved from a place that has very different laws to here. No permit is needed in Alaska, in Nevada it is. The stand your ground and castle laws are a bit different and it's good to have someone (I believe the local guy who goes over that part is the DA) go over the details. Some places include your vehicle, some don't. Some places include your friends house if you were invited it, some don't. Some also just mean your property, others they have to be X amount of feet inside your dwelling.

You can read the laws and what not yourself (and should) but hearing it from the local DA, PO or SO, or lawyer can't be beat. These are the people who deal with it day in and day out. It's just smart to know the local laws and gray areas.

Local laws and area restrictions should be abolished. The second amendment doesn't say who or where or how. Why should a local government be able to deny our rights?

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Spot on with both posts poicemedic, as usual.

One issue I've seen with state CHL classes and, especially in Texas, is the information is about 50/50 this is the law/this is my opinion. And the opinion's are always different, depending on the instructors background and knowledge. I've seen only few who actually study case law, specific to the state and more importantly the county, and most importantly to the current district attorney.

We can all read the law, exemptions to prosecution, etc. But unless you have a understanding of how the local DA interprets and prosecute the law, it can become a very dangerous and expensive roll of the dice.

This is one of the very reasons I avoided teaching CHL classes in Texas, I would need a week to teach all pertaining laws, case law, and and shit load of home study of the students, before I would have ever felt comfortable blessing off and affixing my name to a training cert. Won't even get into the issue of CHL instructors, signing off on firearm safety and proficiency, when the student is obviously unsafe, can't load/function their own weapons and shoot a shotgun pattern on a B27 target at 3,7,15 yards, with time limits that are unrealistically long.

Obviously for some individuals who are smart, well trained and study the laws, a simple test can be sufficient. However, for the masses, they need a hell of a lot more education on the subject, than any state in the union is currently offering. My $.02

 

[Bypass]

Senate bill would grant universal concealed carry reciprocity in all 50 states

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Local laws and area restrictions should be abolished. The second amendment doesn't say who or where or how. Why should a local government be able to deny our rights?

So you would remove the state right to prosecute homicides and or public endangerment/disorderly conduct offenses that would relate to firearms?

 

[Bypass]

Apparently I am the only constitutionalist in the room. Placing laws and stipulations on GOD given rights is the fast track to socialism and a fascist government that controls everything you do right down to what you eat.

 

[Dienekes]

Senate bill would grant universal concealed carry reciprocity in all 50 states

That's awesome, and I fully support it. However, after reading this thread and thinking on self defense laws, I would assume some problems may come of it in the future due to the different laws in each state which could lead to federal self defense laws and/or federally mandated CCW permit requirements. I believe those have the potential to be positives, but given the direction this country seems to be heading, that is probably not likely.

 

[Bypass]

So you would remove the state right to prosecute homicides and or public endangerment/disorderly conduct offenses that would relate to firearms?

WTF has homicide got to do with the second amendment? Public endangerment more like chicken shit liberals complaining that you are armed walking down the street minding your own business. For the record I CC I do not OC as some do but I do not appreciate the law being called on me when my shirt slides over the top of my sidearm.

 

[medicchick]

Local laws and area restrictions should be abolished. The second amendment doesn't say who or where or how. Why should a local government be able to deny our rights?

So that mass murder who just got out of prison should have the same right to carry as anyone? They proved they have no regard for human life and will snuff it out, you just want to give them the means?

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Hey clown shoe, slow your roll a bit. You obviously don't know me very well, but I am what some in here would call a "extremist" when it comes to the constitution.

I support constructional carry, I support universal use of force laws, and would go a step further and say castle doctrine should be the law of the land for all states. But as a constitionalist, I also support states rights, to make, enforce laws that are not specifically granted to the federal government and are reserved to the states. You know like homicide, discharging a firearm in a residential area, shit like that, that doesn't limit your right to carry, just says you can't run around shooting up the town or people, just because you have a gun and a right to carry it.

 

[AWP]

Apparently I am the only constitutionalist in the room. Placing laws and stipulations on GOD given rights is the fast track to socialism and a fascist government that controls everything you do right down to what you eat.

"The only constitutionalist in the room." A- trolling, pretty solid job.

God given rights...that's your right to believe, but mine are the rights of man, not something donated or gifted to me by some deity.

 

[Bypass]

That's awesome, and I fully support it. However, after reading this thread and thinking on self defense laws, I would assume some problems may come of it in the future due to the different laws in each state which could lead to federal self defense laws and/or federally mandated CCW permit requirements. I believe those have the potential to be positives, but given the direction this country seems to be heading, that is probably not likely.

I really want to see the restrictive laws go away. After all the second amendment was written in this way for this reason. "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

[Bypass]

Hey clown shoe, slow your roll a bit. You obviously don't know me very well, but I am what some in here would call a "extremist" when it comes to the constitution.

I support constructional carry, I support universal use of force laws, and would go a step further and say castle doctrine should be the law of the land for all states. But as a constitionalist, I also support states rights, to make, enforce laws that are not specifically granted to the federal government and are reserved to the states. You know like homicide, discharging a firearm in a residential area, shit like that, that doesn't limit your right to carry, just says you can't run around shooting up the town or people, just because you have a gun and a right to carry it.

What is constructional carry?

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

What is constructional carry?

lol constitutional carry.

No need for a license, carry b/c its your right to do so.

 

[medicchick]

No need for a license, carry b/c its your right to do so.

So Alaska?