United States & Gun Control discussion.

Not to mention...many of them are too lazy to put any effort into creating anything. These are the same people who are using revolvers with cylinders rusted shut and are only good for one shot because they can't turn.

They are buying and selling pistols for $25 and $30 that are completely useless.

Criminals care less about any type of gun control issues.
 
Freefalling said:
Some rock slinging gang banger isn't going to buy a printer, computer, and software to make a gun when he can steal one. Maybe your more sophisticated criminals will push for a printed gun, but I doubt they'll significantly alter the landscape.
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Slightly disagree.
Cost of 3-D printers is dropping fast and I can see an enterprising individual becoming the go-to guy/gal using a printer.
3-D printers put another nail in the brick and mortar store coffin.
 
Just wait until 3D printers do become widespread and some jackass 16 yo kid makes a gun on his parent's new 3D printer and blows his face off because he has no idea about mechanics of materials, thermodynamics, or design. That will be one hell of a clusterfuck.
 
Agoge said:
Not to mention...many of them are too lazy to put any effort into creating anything. These are the same people who are using revolvers with cylinders rusted shut and are only good for one shot because they can't turn.

They are buying and selling pistols for $25 and $30 that are completely useless.

Criminals care less about any type of gun control issues.
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What revolver will fire without the cylinder turning?
 
Blizzard said:
Damn...tough crowd. :blkeye:
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Well, let's be honest, I can buy 5 remington 870's in face to face transactions for the cost of a lower end 3d printer with enough workspace to be able to print anything out... and I also don't need any sort of gunsmithing understanding to assemble them, since they're already assembled.

It's not being a hard crowd, it's being realistic. Some "ready to go" home-grade printers (that still have learning curves for operation) are upwards of 2k... that's a whole lotta guns you can get for that if you just need something that throws lead downrange somewhat reliably.

I'll put money that Joe Homie isn't going to be interested in civil war/revolutionary war on-line volley firing with multiple ranks of sagged pants, which is what would be required to use most of the "rifles" available. Example, off your very link:


Hell, even the AR lowers that have been designed to-date haven't proven reliable by any means in just firing, let alone resilient enough to survive being tossed around like a real rifle can be. The pistols are generally way oversized in the way a Tek-9 is a concealable pistol, and also tend to require incorporation of proper firearms lowers.

I mean, when this is a direct quote from Gizmodo regarding a printed firearm

Designed by a Wisconsin engineer who identifies himself anonymously as "Joe" and his creation troublingly as the "Lulz Liberator," the gun is made out of generic Polylac PA-747 ABS, otherwise known as the type of plastic most commonly used in consumer-grade 3D printers. According to Joe, this cheaper material is actually stronger than the ABS plastic used in the much more expensive, Stratasys pro printer that Defense Distributed used. Apparently attempts to use the Stratasys resulted in the gun's barrel exploding, something that is, generally, not ideal.


Contributing to its sturdier status, the Lulz Liberator also holds a bit more metal hardware than its predecessor: traditional hardware store screws replaced the flimsy plastic printed pins. Then, to make everything good and (arguably) legal, the same piece of non-functional steel placed in the Liberator exists in the Lulz variety, allowing it to set off metal detectors and comply with the Undetectable Firearms Act.

Of course, like you'd expect with any plastic gun, it still doesn't work perfectly. Some of the screws as well as the firing pin had to be replaced over the course of the video, and after every shot, while the ammo cartridge didn't explode, it did expand enough to require some hammer pounding before it was ready to go again. But even with its flaws, the message is clear: much more threatening printed guns are possible—and they have the potential to be dirt cheap.
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where do you honestly see the utility? I mean, yay, single shot pistol that requires reaming of the barrel with a cleaning rod and a fucking hammer each time you fire, and replacement of major parts in order to continue functioning through A WHOPPING NINE SHOTS?

Then you have this thing:


Congratulations, you have a printed lower... however, you still have a lower parts kit investment and know-how to install... another >$400 off Midway USA for a pistol upper.... and oh, the roll pins drift, which means good luck with ghetto blasting as it'll render itself inoperable in relatively quick terms, especially if you test fire it (as you'd want/need to) since if they drift with a limited number of test shots, that means the holes will be wallowed out and it will drift even more quickly after repeated shots.

Oh, let's talk sintered metal printed weapons, since you wanted to try to waggle the "woe is the world, omg printed gunz" flag.... $6,000 per weapon manufactured, equipment cost of $600,000 with argon gas and industrial technology/expertise to design/make function...


It's cheaper, easier, more reliable, and more effect on target to manufacture Ingram's, mill 80% lowers for AR's, or jig-bend flats for AK's... and you get something that's STRONG and able to be handed off to Leroy, Habib, Jose, or Duong with minimal training requirements for handling/care/use compared to printed weaponry.
 
AF is looking at 3-D printing so they can make aircraft parts at a deployed location vice shipping them in.
If (and that's a BIG IF), they can then 3-D technology will move forward pretty fast.
Eventually it will come down in cost as companies vie for the consumer market.
 
DA SWO said:
AF is looking at 3-D printing so they can make aircraft parts at a deployed location vice shipping them in.
If (and that's a BIG IF), they can then 3-D technology will move forward pretty fast.
Eventually it will come down in cost as companies vie for the consumer market.
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I'm curious as to what they're thinking of actually producing.

If they're looking at actually "making metal", they'd be looking at easily 3/4 mil thereabouts investment per machine, plus training of the operators.... Build times vary significantly but aren't exactly short even for small parts. Think an hour to make a standard 4"x 1/2" bolt. Power requirements are a concern, since you've got to fire a beam controlled laser to actually weld the metal dust particulate into a solid material.

Part size is also limited, as is the actual integrity of the produced parts compared to hardened/tempered aerospace grade metals. You'd have to have a way to actually do that as well.

You aren't making anything out of Ti for damn sure, as in a powder form it's not exactly human-friendly anyway, nevermind Ti's inherent molecular/material features... and all of these sintered metal parts still only get it generally in the right shape, there's still finish machining. It's part of why the sintered metal printers also generally have multi-axis CNC machines incorporated. That, plus the sintering process makes a rough surface, which in order to continue manufacture of parts requires machining OF the part being made as it can be tall enough of a irregularity in the part to prevent the "wiper" from coming across the part to spread fresh powder for the next layer to be sintered down.

I can totally see the draw off the concept of it at heart. Especially with sintered metals, additive production allows maximization of actual materials used. Send over 200 lbs of powder to a machine, you can make easily 195 lbs worth of parts, unlike if you shipped over a 6 axis CNC Mill/Lathe unit and 200 lbs worth of solid metal.
 
Rage on...
Diamondback 2/2 said:
Introducing the Assault Weapons Ban

Assault Weapons Ban 2015
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Not even 60 seconds in, and he's already full of crap, with flat out lies. By bringing up WWII Germany, he also makes sure to ring the bell in the back of everyone's mind that whispers, "Nazi".

"let's remember that assault weapons were first designed for the battlefield by Germans during the 2nd World War.[snip]"

WRONG.

"Assault" rifles preceded WWII by more than 50 years.


  • 1900- French ENT B-1 - first direct impingement system, giving it rightful place in the lineage of modern weapons, including the M-16. 3400 fps muzzle velocity; Later versions were produced in numbers exceeding 80,000 rifles Meunier rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 
By bringing up WWII Germany, the clueless American public won't bother to recognize that Nazi Germany had the FIRST TOTAL FIREARMS BAN for civilians.... that's right, total disarmament of the civilian population, as soon as this was complete... well, you know the rest of the story.

On March 23, 1933, the Reichstag (German parliament) passed, by a vote of 441 to 94, a measure called the Enabling Act permitting Hitler to make laws without consulting the Reichstag. The president issuing decrees without consulting Congress.

Finally, within a week of assuming autocratic control of the lawmaking power in Germany, Hitler issued the following order regarding gun ownership:

The units of the national revolution, SA, SS, and Stahlhelm, offer every German man with a good reputation the opportunity to join their ranks for the fight. Therefore, whoever does not belong to one of these named units and nevertheless keeps his weapon without authorization or even hides it, must be viewed as an enemy of the national government and will be held responsible without hesitation and with the utmost severity.

And, in case there were any doubts about the seriousness of the severity, a newspaper entry announcing the edict informed citizens: “If we find military weapons or ammunition after 31 March 1933, we will be forced to proceed ruthlessly
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full text here
 
x SF med said:
By bringing up WWII Germany, the clueless American public won't bother to recognize that Nazi Germany had the FIRST TOTAL FIREARMS BAN for civilians.... that's right, total disarmament of the civilian population, as soon as this was complete... well, you know the rest of the story.



full text here
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Bullshit Troll.

I'm too tired to back this up right now. But I will.
 
I had a very lengthy discussion of this yesterday with a co-worker who is vehemently anti-gun. Alls I did was present numbers and data and by the end of the discussion even he could see that a ban would be useless/worthless.
 
Devildoc said:
I had a very lengthy discussion of this yesterday with a co-worker who is vehemently anti-gun. Alls I did was present numbers and data and by the end of the discussion even he could see that a ban would be useless/worthless.
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Yep...I have had many of those discussions myself with the same type of people. One of the strongest tools I used against them was a good healthy dose of "reality." By that, I mean, I would advise them to either purchase a scanner or I would lend them mine for a couple of days or weeks.

Many of them -- if not most -- were truly unaware of the amount of actual gun crimes that were being committed within their city. After they would hear of the actual crimes, I would then tell them that no matter how many -- or how strict -- gun laws were passed, the people they heard committing those crimes over the scanner would not be affected, only those that would use weapons to protect themselves against those people would be.

The citizenry doesn't truly realize that LE doesn't have near the number of interactions with armed people that is believed to exist. Those weapons that are being used for the majority of gun crimes are not going to be removed from the streets. It's that simple. I let them know that I am not talking from cold, neutral statistics, but from 27 and counting years of experience.

Surprisingly, I have saved a few people from themselves. Others, they maintain a closed mind and won't listen to reason.
 
Agoge said:
Many of them -- if not most -- were truly unaware of the amount of actual gun crimes that were being committed within their city. After they would hear of the actual crimes, I would then tell them that no matter how many -- or how strict -- gun laws were passed, the people they heard committing those crimes over the scanner would not be affected, only those that would use weapons to protect themselves against those people would be.
Click to expand...
I recall a particularly busy night during the spring several years ago in Tallanasty. Not even a block from the Criminoles stadium, one of the largest gang shootouts I have ever heard of takes place. Multiple shooters, one dead, the video looks like a shootout in the OK Coral as the shootout is both inside and outside the hybrid gas station fast food joint. All told we identify at least eight shooters based on video. Of course, I am unable to respond with my brothers and sisters because I am stuck at the office working a case where I stopped an SUV loaded with bangers that were shooting out of the vehicle as they drove through a trailer park. One flees, the other three are caught with two pistols and a no shit cold war era flak vest.

That was a very busy and late night for all of us. People do not realize the amount of gun crime that occurs when they sleep. The biggest problem I can put my finger on is people do not report their weapons stolen/lost when they go missing. Thereby making it harder to track down the movement of stolen or missing weapons. A few instances have been family members that say their weapons were stolen but never reported them as stolen. Thereby saving jr fucktard a charge. Overall, the problem is not with the law abiding citizenry.
 

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