United States & Gun Control discussion.

[amlove21]

Interesting. So I wonder how that would work? Would the Federal Govt need to standardize guidelines for CCW licensing?

There are some states you need 8 hours of training, fingerprints and a shooting evaluation, and some states you walk into your local sheriff's office with an ID and you're good. I assume there would have to be some sort of standardization.

 

[Etype]

I always say to people during a debate "Criminals mock societies laws that's why they are criminals"

"These new laws make my life as a criminal really difficult," said no criminal ever, at least not in the US.

Maybe if the punishments were horrifying, like disembowelment, then gun laws might be effective.

 

[Totentanz]

Interesting. So I wonder how that would work? Would the Federal Govt need to standardize guidelines for CCW licensing?

There are some states you need 8 hours of training, fingerprints and a shooting evaluation, and some states you walk into your local sheriff's office with an ID and you're good. I assume there would have to be some sort of standardization.

Therein lies the rub, and the opposition from many in the pro-2A camp. Specifically, that by the time NY, NJ, Mass, and Cali (et. al.) get done with it, "standardization" will severely curtail practices in states that have, shall we say "less infringement" and/or force recertification. I'm not sure what that would entail, but I wouldn't put it past any of those states to impose restrictions outside of common practice purely for the sake of sticking it to the rest of the country.

 

[amlove21]

Therein lies the rub, and the opposition from many in the pro-2A camp. Specifically, that by the time NY, NJ, Mass, and Cali (et. al.) get done with it, "standardization" will severely curtail practices in states that have, shall we say "less infringement" and/or force recertification. I'm not sure what that would entail, but I wouldn't put it past any of those states to impose restrictions outside of common practice purely for the sake of sticking it to the rest of the country.

Yeah, exactly what I was getting at. I am just trying to wrap my head around what a national concealed carry looks like.

 

[Kraut783]

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Here's a neat little place for checking your states reciprocity with other states.

State Reciprocity Map: Concealed Carry Laws by State - USCCA-Concealed Carry Self Defense Insurance & CCW Info

 

[Gunz]

Why would 50-state reciprocity mean standardized licensing guidelines? Right now with my FL concealed weapons license I'm legal to carry in some 35 states, and most of them have different requirements for applicants. But they're not asking me to conform to, say, Utah's requirements, if I choose to carry while visiting that state. Obviously, it makes sense for me to understand SD ROE for any state I carry in but if they honor my license their SD laws must be similar.

 

[Totentanz]

Why would 50-state reciprocity mean standardized licensing guidelines? Right now with my FL concealed weapons license I'm legal to carry in some 35 states, and most of them have different requirements for applicants. But they're not asking me to conform to, say, Utah's requirements, if I choose to carry while visiting that state. Obviously, it makes sense for me to understand SD ROE for any state I carry in but if they honor my license their SD laws must be similar.

Quite simply because places like California (who have a lot of seats in the house) won't let (for example) folks with a FL permit "just because". They'll make sure *they* have their say in the licensing process of the other 49.

I'm morbidly curious if this would force NYC to honor upstate permits.

 

[Ranger Psych]

At this point, all 50 states have legal CCW. There are some where it is nearly prohibitively bureaucratic and rife with red tape to obtain a license much less one that actually allows carry, but there are no states where it is completely illegal (not sure about territories and the like). Illinois was the last one to jump in, forced by an injunction issued in Moore v. Madigan.

Get a carry permit in hawaii or ny city and come back to your statement.....


National carry would establish a minimum standard, yes the haters would get a say, but all said it would be just as attainable as a drivers license when it came down to it.

 

[Totentanz]

Get a carry permit in hawaii or ny city and come back to your statement.....


National carry would establish a minimum standard, yes the haters would get a say, but all said it would be just as attainable as a drivers license when it came down to it.

That falls back to the "nearly prohibitive" ("nearly" qualifier only because those who are wealthy or connected can buy them in those venues).

I was only pointing out that there aren't any states where CCW is completely illegal by statute (which is what amlove was discussing) - only those with artificial bans by way of prohibitive restrictions (see also Ezell v Chicago)

 

[ThunderHorse]

Arizona has constitutional carry, so if you're a resident of a constitutional carry state, would you be good?

Of course not, but it would be a fun exercise.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

<snip>bigger government shouldn't mess with state business?

Haven't they been doing that for decades?

- Seatbelt laws
- .08 DWI laws
- Speed limit laws
- 21 years old to drink laws

"We're not saying you have to do it, but if you don't we're taking away all of your Federal highway funding." <wink-wink>

 

[Grunt]

At the end of the day, the Federal Government can do as they wish and with the swipe of a pen...institute national carry. The states can make their requirements "stricter" than the federal law, but not more lenient.

With that said, after .gov would pass it...they would then "bribe" the states through federal money to accept their national carry laws. It's that simple.

 

[amlove21]

Haven't they been doing that for decades?

- Seatbelt laws
- .08 DWI laws
- Speed limit laws
- 21 years old to drink laws

"We're not saying you have to do it, but if you don't we're taking away all of your Federal highway funding." <wink-wink>

Yeah and that's what Mara eluded to with the Supremacy clause that I so ham-handedly missed. Long story short, if it's the law of the land then the states must respect the law of the land.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Trump may implement a national carry law, but it will be tied up in court over the next decade. Our liberal brethren will be sure to make it a total pain in the ass, but eventually 10-15 years from now, we will have something.

I think we should honestly have a citizen ID program. If you are a citizen of the US, you get to exercise all your goddamm rights period (like strapping your American 1911 45ACP to your hip and be bopping down the street). Everyone else can take a leep. I know, I know, here comes the Nazi Germany "show me your paper's" crowd. If you are a citizen you have rights, if you are not a citizen, you have privileges. A government paid, national ID card would be a smart thing, especially for all the poor people in the inner city who cannot afford an ID. @TLDR20


As for standards, approved list of firearms safety courses, basic test on state and federal laws pertaining and background check (no felony, or domestic violence) should be all that is required. It ain't rocket doctor shit...

 

[Marauder06]

Some of my liberal brethren like to talk about "common sense gun laws," which usually means restricting more of my rights to own guns as well as to bear them and retain the capacity to make them operational (e.g. ammunition).

To me if you want "common sense gun laws," the most common sense of them all is consistent laws in every state.

 

[TLDR20]

Trump may implement a national carry law, but it will be tied up in court over the next decade. Our liberal brethren will be sure to make it a total pain in the ass, but eventually 10-15 years from now, we will have something.

I think we should honestly have a citizen ID program. If you are a citizen of the US, you get to exercise all your goddamm rights period (like strapping your American 1911 45ACP to your hip and be bopping down the street). Everyone else can take a leep. I know, I know, here comes the Nazi Germany "show me your paper's" crowd. If you are a citizen you have rights, if you are not a citizen, you have privileges. A government paid, national ID card would be a smart thing, especially for all the poor people in the inner city who cannot afford an ID. @TLDR20


As for standards, approved list of firearms safety courses, basic test on state and federal laws pertaining and background check (no felony, or domestic violence) should be all that is required. It ain't rocket doctor shit...

I agree with everything you wrote.

I don't think President Trump is pro-gun. We will see though.

 

[TLDR20]

Some of my liberal brethren like to talk about "common sense gun laws," which usually means restricting more of my rights to own guns as well as to bear them and retain the capacity to make them operational (e.g. ammunition).

To me if you want "common sense gun laws," the most common sense of them all is consistent laws in every state.

I think we should have common sense gun laws.

Those would basically be what @Diamondback 2/2 listed out.

 

[policemedic]

I think we already have a common sense gun law. It's the 2nd Amendment.

Regarding national carry reciprocity, he will likely use the commerce clause to enact it. That's how LEOSA came about.

 

[RackMaster]

I think we should have common sense gun laws.

Those would basically be what @Diamondback 2/2 listed out.

In Canada we have what you may call "Common Sense" gun laws but it doesn't do anything to stop criminals from accessing or using guns. The shooting of the mosque in Quebec city last night is a prime example.

 

[TLDR20]

In Canada we have what you may call "Common Sense" gun laws but it doesn't do anything to stop criminals from accessing or using guns. The shooting of the mosque in Quebec city last night is a prime example.

I was remarking in terms of a nationwide concealed carry. I am on the record here if being pretty pro 2A. I am a gunowner. However I would greatly prefer if grandpa fuckhead wants to conceal carry his smokewagon, he has had a bit of training in at the very minimum the laws of the state he is in, and a safety class.

You want guns in your home? Go for it. You want to walk around with one, concealed from me, your rights end where public safety begins.

I have seen way too many shitbags at civilian ranges that are walking safety violations...