United States & Gun Control discussion.

[Ooh-Rah]

However I would greatly prefer if grandpa fuckhead wants to conceal carry his smokewagon, he has had a bit of training in at the very minimum the laws of the state he is in, and a safety class.

And this is where most pro-gun groups (and gun boards) lose my interest. It is all or nothing for them...please. My step-dad was down at my house some years ago so I took him shooting. Mistake. He went out and bought a .44 revolver and carries that thing everywhere. I love him, but he does not have the temperament .... <just deleted a bunch of stuff I should not post on a public forum> ...for carrying. At least he took my advice on which instructor to get his permit from, step-dad has recently got lax about carrying because , "it will be more hassle than it's worth if I ever have to use this thing". That's okay with me. He would not think like that if all he had to do was go to Gander Mountain and buy a nifty holster and "those tactical bullets". :wall:

 

[Marine0311]

You want guns in your home? Go for it. You want to walk around with one, concealed from me, your rights end where public safety begins.

Are you not in favor of CC?

 

[RackMaster]

I was remarking in terms of a nationwide concealed carry. I am on the record here if being pretty pro 2A. I am a gunowner. However I would greatly prefer if grandpa fuckhead wants to conceal carry his smokewagon, he has had a bit of training in at the very minimum the laws of the state he is in, and a safety class.

You want guns in your home? Go for it. You want to walk around with one, concealed from me, your rights end where public safety begins.

I have seen way too many shitbags at civilian ranges that are walking safety violations...

Wasn't assuming you were anti 2A at all. I'm just saying we have very extensive background checks, mandatory training and we can't carry. The only open carry is usually for a trapper in the woods and it's still hard for then to get. CC is only available to those with multiple verified death threats and typically only law enforcement, lawyers, judges, etc.. The average person won't be approved.
We have a minute amount of firearms related deaths compared to the US but most of them are from illegally acquired firearms.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

The only open carry is usually for a trapper in the woods and it's still hard for then to get.

I guess I didn't know it was that bad out there. So in Canada you can't take a stroll in the woods or do some overnight camping and carry your favorite pistola with you?

 

[TLDR20]

Are you not in favor of CC?

That isn't at all what I said.

I said that with an understanding of the state you are in's laws, and a safety class(prolly with a proficiency demo) I am all for it. But in some states(Arizona) I don't even have to be a resident to get a CC. I can mail in apply and have reciprocity in something like 28 states. With no training? I think that is asinine.

 

[RackMaster]

I guess I didn't know it was that bad out there. So in Canada you can't take a stroll in the woods or do some overnight camping and carry your favorite pistola with you?

Nope. You can carry a rifle or shotgun. And in the past you wouldn't be harassed but now, unless you're hunting or target shooting with appropriate licenses (firearms and hunting); chances are you'll be reported to the cops and rolled up. You can only shoot a pistol at an approved range in most provinces, as you are required to hold membership at one in order to get your ATT approved. Thankfully where I live membership is not mandatory and if I owned more property, I could shoot on it.

 

[Blizzard]

I was remarking in terms of a nationwide concealed carry. I am on the record here if being pretty pro 2A. I am a gunowner. However I would greatly prefer if grandpa fuckhead wants to conceal carry his smokewagon, he has had a bit of training in at the very minimum the laws of the state he is in, and a safety class.

You want guns in your home? Go for it. You want to walk around with one, concealed from me, your rights end where public safety begins.

I have seen way too many shitbags at civilian ranges that are walking safety violations...

Generally speaking, I agree with one small difference. Everyone has the right to carry and it should not be denied but with rights come responsibilities. This may be a slippery slope but if you want to carry in public (concealed or not) there should be some fundamental safety training (the slippery slope is in how much training is needed).

Like you, and I'm sure many here, I've been to places where people that should know better are doing some stupid ass things. There are ranges I will no longer go to due to an apparent culture of jackassery that exists as a result of their clientele. Safety training doesn't/shouldn't need to be unnecessarily lengthy, complex or burdensome but should serve to raise awareness of a citizen's responsibilities. I don't view it all that differently than getting a driver's license (a reasonable analogy since my driver's license affords me privilege in every state, just as a carry permit should). This may not be a popular viewpoint but seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

[RackMaster]

That isn't at all what I said.

I said that with an understanding of the state you are in's laws, and a safety class(prolly with a proficiency demo) I am all for it. But in some states(Arizona) I don't even have to be a resident to get a CC. I can mail in apply and have reciprocity in something like 28 states. With no training? I think that is asinine.

As a Canadian, there's several states that I can apply for a CC with only a copy of my license from here. I understand and agree with the training requirement to carry.

 

[TLDR20]

Generally speaking, I agree with one small difference. Everyone has the right to carry and it should not be denied but with rights come responsibilities. This may be a slippery slope but if you want to carry in public (concealed or not) there should be some fundamental safety training (the slippery slope is in how much training is needed).

Like you, and I'm sure many here, I've been to places where people that should know better are doing some stupid ass things. There are ranges I will no longer go to due to an apparent culture of jackassery that exists due to their clientele. Safety training doesn't/shouldn't need to be unnecessarily lengthy, complex or burdensome but should serve to raise awareness of a citizens responsibilities. I don't view it all that differently than getting a driver's license. This may not be a popular viewpoint but seems fairly reasonable to me.

In almost all ways a vehicle is a more dangerous weapon than a firearm. We have a standardized (generally) way of testing proficiency and punishing those who don't comply. I know driving isn't a constitutional right, but I don't think concealing a weapon is either.

I'm not a constitutional scholar and don't claim to be. I don't really care too much for that argumentative aim either as no one here is as well. They didn't have fully automatic, concealable pistols in the 18th century...

 

[Dienekes]

I haven't taken my CCW class yet, but everyone I know is ultimately glad they went. Sure it's a pain in the ass at first, especially for people in bumfuck North Louisiana where you can get hunting tags just by walking up to a counter who think it's their "god given right" to carry, but I haven't heard a negative review about the class yet other than the price (~$100).

 

[ThunderHorse]

I guess I didn't know it was that bad out there. So in Canada you can't take a stroll in the woods or do some overnight camping and carry your favorite pistola with you?

If the Vice short Doc is remotely accurate...you can't have a loaded rifle until you're at a range.

 

[pardus]

If the Vice short Doc is remotely accurate...you can't have a loaded rifle until you're at a range.

I guess they banned hunting in Canada then...

 

[RackMaster]

If the Vice short Doc is remotely accurate...you can't have a loaded rifle until you're at a range.

Depends on the classification. An AR variant would be restricted and only permitted use at the range. You also need a special class of license with a more training and more extensive background check. Plus you go on a registry and can have a daily background check.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I guess they banned hunting in Canada then...

They didn't really talk about Hunting in this, of course hunting seems kosher based on outfitters taking 'Mericans hunting:

 

[RackMaster]

They didn't really talk about Hunting in this, of course hunting seems kosher based on outfitters taking 'Mericans hunting:

That's was an alright documentary but still with a healthy dabble of liberal bias.

Here's a couple.great sources of information.
Ottawa criminal defence lawyer Solomon Friedman - Firearms Law Canada
Canadian Firearms Program - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I love the Canucks but their gun laws are all fucked up. Poor bastards.

I think everyone wanting to carry should have to demonstrate that they are safe and can at least load, unload and hit a target out to 25 yards. Honestly, I think they should shoot the local police qual, once a year, pay the PD $25, bring a box of ammo and shoot the qual. If you are all fucked up, sorry come back and try again.

A small DMV style book on carry laws, use of force and recommendations on how to interact with the police. Study up, take the test, and done and done.

It doesn't have to overboard, and it doesn't have to be a simple check the block. If they qualified at the same standard as your local cops, nobody should be bitchin about standards. Unless they want to finally admit how poorly trained our LEO's are in the use of pistol, but that's a different conversation for a different thread.

Background check is straight forward.

Simple test on the study book and done.

Make it good for 4 years, as long as you have an updated yearly PD Qual sheet with your permit. Have them retest on laws every 4 years, with update on background check. Too easy...

 

[Gunz]

They didn't really talk about Hunting in this, of course hunting seems kosher based on outfitters taking 'Mericans hunting:

That was interesting.

But there is a big problem with gun-related violence comparisons between the US and Canada because of the huge disparity of population. California has a bigger population than Canada (Canada 35 million; California 39 million), so population alone is going to account for markedly higher gun deaths in the US.

 

[Gunz]

I love the Canucks but their gun laws are all fucked up. Poor bastards.

I think everyone wanting to carry should have to demonstrate that they are safe and can at least load, unload and hit a target out to 25 yards. Honestly, I think they should shoot the local police qual, once a year, pay the PD $25, bring a box of ammo and shoot the qual. If you are all fucked up, sorry come back and try again.

A small DMV style book on carry laws, use of force and recommendations on how to interact with the police. Study up, take the test, and done and done.

It doesn't have to overboard, and it doesn't have to be a simple check the block. If they qualified at the same standard as your local cops, nobody should be bitchin about standards. Unless they want to finally admit how poorly trained our LEO's are in the use of pistol, but that's a different conversation for a different thread.

Background check is straight forward.

Simple test on the study book and done.

Make it good for 4 years, as long as you have an updated yearly PD Qual sheet with your permit. Have them retest on laws every 4 years, with update on background check. Too easy...

I'd extend the retest/renewal time to 7 years, but other than that, yeah, too easy.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I'd extend the retest/renewal time to 7 years, but other than that, yeah, too easy.

Technology in today's day, have them do the first test at the dmv, than have them update online every two years for state and federal law updates. I mean it's not like once a year qual and testing every two years from the comfort of your home is all that hard. Hell we all spend more time on this forum daily then it would take to read a few pages of law and take a test. $.02

 

[Devildoc]

I love the Canucks but their gun laws are all fucked up. Poor bastards.

I think everyone wanting to carry should have to demonstrate that they are safe and can at least load, unload and hit a target out to 25 yards. Honestly, I think they should shoot the local police qual, once a year, pay the PD $25, bring a box of ammo and shoot the qual. If you are all fucked up, sorry come back and try again.

A small DMV style book on carry laws, use of force and recommendations on how to interact with the police. Study up, take the test, and done and done.

It doesn't have to overboard, and it doesn't have to be a simple check the block. If they qualified at the same standard as your local cops, nobody should be bitchin about standards. Unless they want to finally admit how poorly trained our LEO's are in the use of pistol, but that's a different conversation for a different thread.

Background check is straight forward.

Simple test on the study book and done.

Make it good for 4 years, as long as you have an updated yearly PD Qual sheet with your permit. Have them retest on laws every 4 years, with update on background check. Too easy...

Whether or not this is a good idea or if it'll work, here's the problem I see: How much do you pay to vote? Aside from a permit fee, how much do you pay to peaceably assemble? How much do you pay to use any of the other Constitutional rights? I don't think it's a bad idea, but I appreciate both sides.