United States & Gun Control discussion.

TLDR20 said:
Lol. California has a 5% growth rate. Which is fine. Their economy is almost equal to what 35 of the other states combined? California is fine with these laws, they did vote on them.
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I'm not, I'm also not cool with politicians that shit on rights. That is why I gave up my claim to residency.

If you enjoy the usurpation of your rights feel free to stay. I personally don't like celebrities whom are protected by security details spouting about guns being the bad stuff.

California is my home, my roots in my hometown are over a century old. This is not ok, so I gave it up and chose not to come back. As far as the Economy, it hasn't surged anywhere. It has ranked 6th many times in my life. I'm not sure what it will take, the state needs a balanced budget amendment, the deficit it's going to run in the next 20 years is going to break the government.

@TLDR20 Companies leave the state every week.

How many businesses have left California? This report claims to have an answer

California will always be a growth state in population, my history teacher called it the Rose Bowl Theory: When someone from Butt COLD Wisconsin flips the television on New Years Day to see 60 degrees and sunny, they say screw it and move.
 
TLDR20 said:
I'm just saying, trying to say everyone is leaving California and moving to Texas is bunk.

People go to where there are jobs, in America, there are more jobs in California.

People care about jobs first, gun rights aren't the reason people move somewhere unless they have the freedom of choice...
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I dunno. I love California. I think it's a beautiful state. I did my active duty time primarily at Fort Ord in the 7th ID (L) and it was great.

However, I was 18 and it was the late '80s. The only guns I had were the rifle and pistol Uncle Sam gave me. Gun laws weren't on my radar then because of my age and other factors.

Now, I do look at jobs in California but simply can't move there. San Francisco is a nightmare. I love LA and the surrounding counties but public sector jobs are out due to the CALPERS disaster.

More importantly, even though I'm exempt from a lot of the gun laws in CA I'm still unwilling to abdicate my rights or personal security to the state.

Other than certain private employers, California's big sell--to me, anyway--is good weather. I can get that in Florida, NC, SC...hell, even Alabama if my Nittany Lion side could deal with hearing Roll Tide every five minutes.

It's also true that I'm job hunting as a hobby. I don't need a new job; I want to move at some point so if the right job presents itself in the right place I'm ghost. Others may need a job and would jump at an opportunity to work for Google or Apple or Disney, Constitutional usurpation be damned.
 
policemedic said:
I dunno. I love California. I think it's a beautiful state. I did my active duty time primarily at Fort Ord in the 7th ID (L) and it was great.

However, I was 18 and it was the late '80s. The only guns I had were the rifle and pistol Uncle Sam gave me. Gun laws weren't on my radar then because of my age and other factors.

Now, I do look at jobs in California but simply can't move there. San Francisco is a nightmare. I love LA and the surrounding counties but public sector jobs are out due to the CALPERS disaster.

More importantly, even though I'm exempt from a lot of the gun laws in CA I'm still unwilling to abdicate my rights or personal security to the state.

Other than certain private employers, California's big sell--to me, anyway--is good weather. I can get that in Florida, NC, SC...hell, even Alabama if my Nittany Lion side could deal with hearing Roll Tide every five minutes.

It's also true that I'm job hunting as a hobby. I don't need a new job; I want to move at some point so if the right job presents itself in the right place I'm ghost. Others may need a job and would jump at an opportunity to work for Google or Apple or Disney, Constitutional usurpation be damned.
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In California the pay for many jobs is out of this world better. Cops can make almost 100k a year after overtime, firefighters the same, cost of living can be higher dependent on where you are. Nurses salaries? Forget about it...
 
I'm simple. I live where I like it. The weather, the jobs, etc. I have gotten to where I don't put too much into other issues. If there are things in a certain place that I don't agree with, I don't go there...or, I simply get over it. Again, I'm simple like that. ;-)
 
TLDR20 said:
In California the pay for many jobs is out of this world better. Cops can make almost 100k a year after overtime, firefighters the same, cost of living can be higher dependent on where you are. Nurses salaries? Forget about it...
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Well, this is true. For example, Sunnyvale, CA pays close to 100k base to their public safety officers (which they should, because these guys function as cops/firefighters/EMTs). LAPD/LASD come close, though not at entry (unless you're a lateral hire). The problem is the retirement system and cost-of-living.

Anyone in the CALPERS system is getting buttfucked worse than @Wiener Licker recently was.

But then again, it's not unheard of for cops in Philly or elsewhere to hit those numbers. Jersey cops kill it, but again, their retirement plan isn't stable.

I agree about the nursing salaries.
 
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All those salaries and socialist programs come at a cost and no matter what California's GDP is, the hole gets deeper. The only other sub-sovereign state to be as fucked is where I live in Ontario and we have no where near the same population. Try paying over half your salary in income taxes and then get tax raped for any other purchases; especially any resource based commodity.

As for gun control, it boggles my mind how irrational the fear of law abiding gun owners increases the more Liberal an individuals thoughts are. You can have socialist programs and still believe in keeping fundamental rights, like gun ownership.

Screenshot_20170108-104538.png

Screenshot_20170108-105351.png

http://www.debtclock.ca/provincial-debtclocks/ontario/ontario-s-debt/

State of California Debt Clock
 
Yeah, you can clear 100k, why does that matter when you're seeing none of it? Then you can't afford to live near where you work, or can't afford to live in the few nice parts of town.

Gun laws are important. Referendum government, Kamala Harris, overpaid legislature that does nothing because of referendum government. What's more important is the cost of living, where the median entry price to a small place in my hometown is 700k. One reason why people are staying is because they're just a few years off their retirement. Young people will always think California is where the opportunity is because we've been brainwashed our entire lives. There's opportunity everywhere, you just have to hustle.

Arizona, home prices seem similar to the southeast and I don't have to worry about my rights being usurped by idiots.
 
Agoge said:
I'm simple.
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gvgqri.jpg
 
RackMaster said:
As for gun control, it boggles my mind how irrational the fear of law abiding gun owners increases the more Liberal an individuals thoughts are. You can have socialist programs and still believe in keeping fundamental rights, like gun ownership.
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This is one of my favorite arguments.
 
Very interesting, considering the new administrations stance (or at least campaign promises) on gun control.

Most interesting is the third article about essentially a nationwide conceal carry initiative, of course excluding the states where CCW is illegal.

Wouldn't that bill essentially be going against one of the constitution's basic ideas- that the bigger government shouldn't mess with state business?
 
I think the Supremacy Clause would trump (pun not intended) in this case.

There might also be precedence with the Interstate Commerce Clause, that has been pretty good in the past in getting states in line with what the administration was pushing.
 
amlove21 said:
Wouldn't that bill essentially be going against one of the constitution's basic ideas- that the bigger government shouldn't mess with state business?
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States aren't supposed to be allowed to infringe upon constitutional rights, if they interpret the 2nd amendment to apply to concealed carry then the states may be facing a law suit.

Eta- @Marauder06 beat me to it.
 
amlove21 said:
Very interesting, considering the new administrations stance (or at least campaign promises) on gun control.

Most interesting is the third article about essentially a nationwide conceal carry initiative, of course excluding the states where CCW is illegal.

Wouldn't that bill essentially be going against one of the constitution's basic ideas- that the bigger government shouldn't mess with state business?
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Yes on face value it would be. I am all for a National Right to Carry as I would enjoy a/the right to carry when I travel (for personal/vacation). Since I am not LEO and I don't fall under HR 218 I don't have that ability (like police officers do).

I do want to see it happen but I can see the other side of allowing states to say "no" or allowing states to set their own rules. Of course the gun hog in me says states like New York and Cail (some of the strictest carry laws around) can suck it hard. :D
 
amlove21 said:
Very interesting, considering the new administrations stance (or at least campaign promises) on gun control.

Most interesting is the third article about essentially a nationwide conceal carry initiative, of course excluding the states where CCW is illegal.

Wouldn't that bill essentially be going against one of the constitution's basic ideas- that the bigger government shouldn't mess with state business?
Click to expand...

At this point, all 50 states have legal CCW. There are some where it is nearly prohibitively bureaucratic and rife with red tape to obtain a license much less one that actually allows carry, but there are no states where it is completely illegal (not sure about territories and the like). Illinois was the last one to jump in, forced by an injunction issued in Moore v. Madigan.
 
Etype said:
But they still can't get their criminals to obey the law.

Such an outwardly apparent fact that seems to remain lost on some.
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I do strongly strongly agree. I live in a state (I'll PM you it) where we have some strong laws and yet in the big/major cites have seen a spike in shootings and firearms related crimes.

I always say to people during a debate "Criminals mock societies laws that's why they are criminals"

As if new (or existing) gun laws will cause the criminals to suddenly give up.
 

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