United States & Gun Control discussion.

[CDG]

#BanMachineGuns??? I was unaware the shooter used a machine gun. This is the problem. If you are so ignorant that you don't understand basic terms and definitions, then educate yourself before proffering opinions.

 

[SaintKP]

There's tons of crap in there where these kids are definitely being used: 122:00 "The NRA is murdering me, the NRA is murdering you"

The kid who starts at 144, the exact line is at 147

I'll watch more of it tomorrow after work to see how these kids are being "controlled", I don't have the time tonight to go through a 2 hour long video.

However I listened from the 144 mark to 150 and not once did the "idiot" say what you stated. I even relistened to see if for some reason I was missing it, and no I hadn't. I heard a teenager laying the victims of the mass shooting at the feet of Congress and how it's complete and total inaction will be the cause of the next shooting. You can argue the whether that is false or grandstanding etc. However she has a completely valid point, Congresses lack of action in either direction of gun cointrol is not helping solve the situation and to an extent letting it slide.

 

[DocIllinois]

I agree with @CQB .

Why rail against children who are speaking out in nascent activism? The only reason I can surmise is that it's the result of the fear that their messages will be heard and considered.

Otherwise, why even bother paying attention to them?

 

[ThunderHorse]

The NRA is an Association of Americans that advocates on behalf of protecting yours and my 2nd Amendment rights. How they're being controlled, it doesn't matter. They're uneducated, they can have their views, but they are not the majority.

Parkland was preventable. This has nothing to do with guns. Schools are a soft target, we've talked about that for a long time.

 

[SaintKP]

I'm well aware how the NRA plays into the grand scheme of preserving our 2A and even goes as far as fear mongering to generate support, nor was i going into how a school will always be a soft target given our current practices as a nation. Are they uneducated because they don't hold the same viewpoint as you or me? Or are they uneducated for not knowing firearm terminology?

The latter is ignorance and can be corrected easily, the former should never be shied away from...

 

[Chopstick]

More on the bucket of fail from the school system on Parkland. I wonder how many people are going to take to the streets en masse to protest the actions or more accurately the inaction of the school's poor decisions involving Nicholas Cruz. How many other Nicks are walking the halls of our schools? We have all of these checks and balances but so many failures both of law enforcement not following their protocols (as the FBI has admitted to in this case) as well within the school system itself. But everyone keep screaming "ban guns"! I think until we scrutinize our mental health measures, the protocol at the schools as well as the failures in the lack of diligence of law enforcement agencies with the same rabid attentions paid to simply banning guns, we are going to see violence on this scale in our schools again and again. If a kid cant get a gun, he or she will simply use another form of weapon. (Case in point Alex Hribal, Franklin Regional High School)

School board knew of Parkland shooter's obsession with guns and violence, documents show

Exclusive documents obtained by Local 10 News show the education plan for school shooter Nikolas Cruz; a plan that left clear signals that should have alerted officials of the danger he posed to the community, according to a former Broward County ESE specialist who reviewed the information at the station's request.
"What you're discussing from the plan seems to be the profile of a mass killer," said Dottie Provenzano, who retired from Broward County Public Schools in 2017.

The education plan shows that, even as Cruz was making progress at the Cross Creek School for emotionally and behaviorally disabled students in late 2015, but that he was known by administrators to have an obsession with guns and violence. Here are some passages from the plan:

• "Nikolas at times, will be distracted by inappropriate conversations of his peers if the topic is about guns, people being killed or the armed forces," wrote Cross Creek educators.
• "He is fascinated by the use of guns and often speaks of weapons and the importance of 'having weapons to remain safe in this world.'"
• "He becomes preoccupied with things such as current events regarding wars and terrorist [sic]."

Provenzano said that in 42 years of dealing with exceptional students she never saw a document with such obvious signs that a student might resort to violence.
"These are significant red flags that this is a very troubled young man," she said.

 

[Devildoc]

@CQB I don't think that they should not have a voice or be able to vent or be proactive, but I will say is that I think they are indeed being manipulated, and they have no political, policy knowledge, social context, or experience or in order to render an objective opinion on the subject.

It would be like if my spouse smoked 4 packs of cigarettes a day and just died of lung cancer I would be on the defensive and blaming the cigarette industry.

 

[CQB]

No. If you're out there calling the protection of your own rights tyranny of legislative bodies you need a tune up. Which was said today by an idiot 17/18 yr old at the Florida State House today. However, I'm pretty sure that numpty wasn't a student at the school either.

Well, I'm sure you're on the wrong side of history.

 

[Downtown “Funky Stuff” Malone🍆]

Seems that strict gun laws do not deter criminals...

Father worried 'he would die' after being confronted by armed men

Pair wanted over Vic tattoo shop shooting - 9News

 

[CQB]

@CQB I don't think that they should not have a voice or be able to vent or be proactive, but I will say is that I think they are indeed being manipulated, and they have no political, policy knowledge, social context, or experience or in order to render an objective opinion on the subject.

It would be like if my spouse smoked 4 packs of cigarettes a day and just died of lung cancer I would be on the defensive and blaming the cigarette industry.

I disagree, I saw the young man in question on TV today & whilst his facts regarding the Port Arthur incident here were incorrect, what he said was unfiltered, it was raw. I don't see the dab hand of any influence in what he had to say. To labour the point, if there was influence perhaps he would have been more accurate. (Moot point). His opinion wasn't objective, it was subjective. Not only here, but Europe & the UK scratch their heads at where this debate is at for the US as it makes sense to us. POTUS is taking some measures and I hope they pass & get up.
Do not think you are being disarmed. As I've said before, legal ownership here is increasing, homicides are decreasing.

 

[CQB]

Seems that strict gun laws do not deter criminals...

Father worried 'he would die' after being confronted by armed men

Pair wanted over Vic tattoo shop shooting - 9News

Well of course not. If I had my time over I would be a criminal lawyer. Thousands of years of civilization haven't prevented crime, (though globally it is decreasing) which is a risk/reward proposition. I'd be richer than I am now if I studied law instead of security and representing the crooks would be like a rainbow hitting you in the arse.

 

[Devildoc]

I disagree, I saw the young man in question on TV today & whilst his facts regarding the Port Arthur incident here were incorrect, what he said was unfiltered, it was raw. I don't see the dab hand of any influence in what he had to say. To labour the point, if there was influence perhaps he would have been more accurate. (Moot point). His opinion wasn't objective, it was subjective. Not only here, but Europe & the UK scratch their heads at where this debate is at for the US as it makes sense to us. POTUS is taking some measures and I hope they pass & get up.
Do not think you are being disarmed. As I've said before, legal ownership here is increasing, homicides are decreasing.

I don't think we are going to be disarmed. Even if they said "henceforth ownership of any gun is prohibited and illegal," we ain't going to be disarmed. The people will tell the government F.U.

I agree with raw, unfiltered comments, and because of their grief, I will give them a bit of a pass but recognize they are on a short leash.

What people in the UK and Europe think of US gun laws is the least of my concern. But I will say they need to be careful; glass houses and all.

I will say if these kids really were concerned about the validity of what happened last week, you'd hear more about the FBI's incompetence and how the school board and school system dropped the ball. The fact all they are saying is "guns" tells me all I need to know about their willingness to discuss the problem rationally and objectively.

I will also add, the world and the democrats/liberals think mass shootings are a US problem and that rifle-related deaths are somehow rampant. Both of which are just simply not true.

Edited to add, you want to know why I think these kids are being manipulated?

Florida shooting survivor: CNN gave me 'scripted' question for town hall, quashed question on armed guards

 

[CQB]

As far as the FBI goes, Intel in never perfect from my POV. In the rear view mirror it becomes crystal clear sometimes. I wouldn't say the FBI was incompetent: 'a guy online is making threats.' Right, OK. Unleash the hounds. Security is never perfect and if some one says it is because they're selling you something or they're lying, or both. As for the prevalence of rifle-related deaths (wot no hand guns?) don't occur here. Over here the main deaths are by hand gun, no self respecting crook wants to carry a long arm. They want to shoot the target, bug out, burn the car & go home to habipti. All without shooting themselves in the gonads as they do so.

 

[Devildoc]

The FBI isn't perfect, but even it admitted it fucked up: Video: FBI admits it dropped the ball after being warned about school shooting suspect

The point being, you would think if these kids really wanted to be serious about the debate, they would give at least equal time in how the system failed; but no, all they want to do is talk about gun control.

The Land Down Under may not have rifle deaths, but the rest of the word does, and in far worse numbers and with more gun control than does the US.

 

[Gunz]

...Video: FBI admits it dropped the ball after being warned about school shooting suspect...

The point being, you would think if these kids really wanted to be serious about the debate, they would give at least equal time in how the system failed; but no, all they want to do is talk about gun control.
.

They do, Brother...on the ABC video you posted. (1:13)

This was something a lot of people saw coming and an epic failure on the part of the authorities. Gun issues aside, as I posted above, this might've been prevented by LEAs doing their fucking job and making a felony arrest for the threats he made.

There are some pretty mentally fucked up teenagers out there, and the ones with a history of torturing and killing animals are classic future mass-shooters or serial killers.

BTW, I think a plea bargain saving this motherfucker from the death penalty should be flatly rejected by prosecutors. He needs to fucking burn and I only wish "Old Sparky" was still the means for execution in this state.

 

[RackMaster]

@DocIllinois given that a good percentage of the shooters end up committing suicide before being caught, it's a fair assumption they were mentally ill.

As for your comment about the % of mentally ill that are incarcerated, it's a similar issue here in Canada and we don't have for profit prisons. They just end up with reduced sentences and in a group home on probation. Many end up reoffending as well. The problem is that we are a reactionary society and always looking for a quick fix. We need to accept that some people can not be rehabilitated and some should never be permitted in regular society. Reopen institutions with modern standards of care and make them as comfortable as possible.

 

[Devildoc]

I don't have any evidence-based research about shooters and mental illness; however, we DO know that many of them were on pysch meds. Harris (Columbine) was on antidepressant, the Va Tech shooter was on antidepressant, Kinkel was on Prozac, Hoffman was on antidepressant, the Colorado movie theater guy was under a shrink's care. While it's pretty well-known that depression is not a MO for murder, the meds seem to be. SSRIs have been linked to violence in those who take them.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Well, I'm sure you're on the wrong side of history.

The wrong side of history will be when the second amendment is removed from our constitution, you want to see Tyranny. We'll both be long dead when that happens. Removing firearms from our society is not going to stop mentally unstable people from killing others. This kid was adopted, was jacked up from losing his adopted dad and then it blew up when his adopted mother died in November. FBI fucked up, and instead of that being the headline, we had children not knowing their own rights because they've been fed bullshit their whole life. You don't want to own firearms, cool, you want to revoke the rights of the people? I have a problem with that.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

It kills me that a certain side of the political spectrum is using these kids and grief stricken parents, who lost their children to the Florida shooting, to call out for the authoritarian laws to be enacted. Meanwhile the MSM is spinning these events to fit with the political ideology of it's owners, all while making a petty penny out of the outrage and fear resulting from this tragedy.

Useful idiots, the lot of them.

 

[Bypass]

Cost the DNC a lot of money busing in those protestors and hiring extras who are feigning outrage so they can enact new gun laws on their way to their goal of disarming Americans. I say we cut them some slack I mean come on they just want to do whats right for all Americans. Seriously, why do we even need guns? Not like we would ever have to defend ourselves from a tyrannical government like the founding fathers intended. Right?

I guess I will just give all my guns to the Salvation Army since they are an actual army unlike me. I'm sure they will protect me when I need it. Or I could call the police since they are only 10 minutes away when seconds count.