United States & Gun Control discussion.

256 said:
Now, these kids are yelling (inside the FL State House), "no justice, no peace." So...if we don't get our way, we'll resort to violence? Sounds like something that happened at a Florida School not too long ago.
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They are so young, so naïve, so blindingly stupid they don't know what they don't know.
 
Red Flag 1 said:
Whatever else is done, without taking a critical look at the care patients suffering from mental illness, only part of the problem is being considered. The bed space for acute mental illness, and severe chronic mental illness is way short of what we need. The bulk of the interface between the general population and patients with mental illness is handled by law enforcement, the courts and various correctional institutio;s. Without states spending the money needed on this corner of healthcare, violent behaviors will take lives.

Being able to identify patients for treatment and removing them from access to dangerous devices, including motor driven. vehicles, the threat of sudden violent behavior will continue. Right now this is 100% on the back of our LEO community, it should be on the front burner on state departments of mental hygiene.

My $.02.
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Never going to happen. The same people screaming to ban guns will be screaming about the mentally ills rights. This is exactly why North America moved away from inpatient facilities and moving them to group homes, etc. And now that's a billion dollar health care industry with just as strong lobby groups as any other. This is a result of our own doing and a complete failure of society.
 
RackMaster said:
Never going to happen. The same people screaming to ban guns will be screaming about the mentally ills rights. This is exactly why North America moved away from inpatient facilities and moving them to group homes, etc. And now that's a billion dollar health care industry with just as strong lobby groups as any other. This is a result of our own doing and a complete failure of society.
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The largest provider of mental health services, and the largest houser of people with severe mental health issues, is the prison system, at least in the US. So that problem of for profit businesses making a profit could be a lot worse.

What evidence is there that serious mental illness plays a major part in mass shootings, or any gun violence, other than folks assuming that it is?

Wait, I've already put in that request. Twice. Disregard.
 
Seriously, @DocIllinois are you honestly stating that someone could be rational and sane with regards to mass murder outside of politically sanctioned necessity of governmental force?

Even that fucks with sane people. We do what we must for the greater good and so nobody else has to in our stead or should we fail, not because we enjoyed it.
 
DocIllinois said:
Shifting the burden of proof?

Come on, dude.
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I have yet to see you put up information based on your experience. You keep posting up fluffy pieces developed by the same ilk that said OxyContin isn’t addicting or cigarettes won’t hurt. Maybe the big brains are the obstacles. Ever think of that? I am medically educated as a DMT so the mumbo jumbo doesn’t snow me. I get your view but common sense and experience will always trump big brain 🧠 papers all day long.
 
While I don't agree with their stance on the subject I agree with @CQB on this. Regardless of how unnuanced or emotional or "misguided" they may be, they still have a voice and a right to be heard. Just because they haven't grown up or matured yet doesn't mean their stance is any less valid.
 
- Pause -

No one has said anything wrong, but I can see frustration heating up.

Friendly MOD reminder to keep it professional.

Thanks.
 
It's a felony in FL to make a direct threat of bodily injury or death. If this asshat's death threats had been reported to LE he would have been arrested and convicted... and hence not permitted to own firearms.
 
I think Mr. Pollack expressed it very well.
WATCH: Trump-Supporting Dad Who Lost Daughter In Florida Shooter Gives Powerful Speech At White House

I’m here because my daughter has no voice.

She was murdered last week, and she was taken from us, shot nine times on the third floor. We as a country failed our children. This shouldn’t happen. We go to the airport, I can’t get on a plane with a bottle of water, but we leave some animal to walk into a school and shoot our children. It is just not right.

And we need come together as a country and work on what’s important.

And that is protecting our children in the schools. That’s the only thing that matters right now. Everyone has to come together and not think about different laws. We need to come together as a country, not different parties, and figure out how we protect the schools. It is simple.

It is not difficult. We protect airports. We protect concerts, stadiums, embassies. The Department of Education that I walked in today that has a security guard in the elevator. How do you think that makes me feel? In the elevator they got a security guard. I’m very angry that this happened, because it keeps happening.

9/11 happened once, and they fixed everything. How many schools, how many children have to get shot? It stops here with this administration and me. I’m not going to sleep until it is fixed. And Mr. President, we’re going to fix it. Because I’m going to fix it. I’m not going to rest.

And my boys need live with this. I want to see everyone — you guys look at this. Me, I’m — I’m a man, but to see your children go through this, bury their sister. That’s what I keep saying because I want to sink in. Not forget about this. We can’t forget about it.

All these school shootings, it doesn’t make sense. Fix it.

Should have been one school shooting and we should have fixed it. And I’m pissed. Because my daughter I’m not going to see again. She’s not here. She’s not here. She’s in North Lauderdale at … King David Cemetery. That is where I go to see my kid now.

And if we all work together and come up with the right idea — school safety. It is not about gun laws. That is another fight, another battle. Let’s fix the schools and then you guys can battle it out whatever you want. But we need our children safe. Monday, tomorrow, whatever day it is, your kids are going to go to school. You think everyone’s kids are safe?

I didn’t think it was going to happen to me. If I knew that, I would have been at the school every day if I knew it was that dangerous. It’s enough. Let’s get together, work with the president and fix the schools. That’s it. No other discussions. … I’m never going to see my kid again. … Never, ever will I see my kid. I want it to sink in. It’s eternity. My beautiful daughter I’m never going to see again. And it’s simple. It’s not — we can fix it.​
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Ranger Psych said:
Seriously, @DocIllinois are you honestly stating that someone could be rational and sane with regards to mass murder outside of politically sanctioned necessity of governmental force?

Even that fucks with sane people. We do what we must for the greater good and so nobody else has to in our stead or should we fail, not because we enjoyed it.
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I'm not stating anything besides what experts in the fields which apply to this subject have already stated.

I've gathered the information, checked it for sources of bias, read what experts have to say and their references, and formed my opinion.

I didn't know that a 'It just makes sense' position would have been fitting for a subject that's been studied.
 
CQB said:
Shameful, you lot for blaming the victims for being immature. I’d say as a life experience being in a mass murder & surviving it would rate as a critical event & a life experience. They have a voice.
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No. If you're out there calling the protection of your own rights tyranny of legislative bodies you need a tune up. Which was said today by an idiot 17/18 yr old at the Florida State House today. However, I'm pretty sure that numpty wasn't a student at the school either.
 
ThunderHorse said:
No. If you're out there calling the protection of your own rights tyranny of legislative bodies you need a tune up. Which was said today by an idiot 17/18 yr old at the Florida State House today. However, I'm pretty sure that numpty wasn't a student at the school either.
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Do you have a link to that? I'm not challenging but I'm interested in seeing/hearing the entire statement instead of an excerpt/bullet point.
 
SaintKP said:
Do you have a link to that? I'm not challenging but I'm interested in seeing/hearing the entire statement instead of an excerpt/bullet point.
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@ThunderHorse - I agree with Saint. Do you have a link? I ask because you have a habit of calling people names without the context. I'd like to know what makes this 17/18 year old kid an idiot.
 

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