Topkick
Verified Military
I think the Red flag law will be used as a weapon against undeserving people in some cases.
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United States & Gun Control discussion.
- Thread starter Diamondback 2/2
- Start date
Red flag laws...supporting those is the antithesis of being an American.
RE: "common sense" gun control. Yeah, nah. The gov't doesn't willingly give up something once taken from you.
There are two sides to this problem and two sides to the solution and those sides are the pro- and anti-gun lobbies. I do not like the NRA for a few reasons, but that's not the focus. As the largest, most vocal, pro-2A organization with deep pockets, it really needs to pull its head out of its ass. "Good guy with a gun" is a viable argument, but too heavily pitched. Video game violence...just shut up with that noise. Armed teachers, that's a bad idea. We're going to arm teachers and give them a half-assed qualification course to shoot in situations that elite units train for almost daily? Our own police can barely qualify and have a history of doing nothing during school shootings, so that Masters of Ed. holding algebra teacher is gonna' slay out like Rambo? The NRA can do better.
And the "gun grabbers" out there hold the emotional and thus the media high ground. They make for great, passionate sound bites that stir up a semi-educated, mouth-breathing social media lynch mob. Taking weapons from Americans won't solve the problem with gun violence in America. Cities with some of the most restrictive gun laws have some of the highest murder rates in the country (if not THE highest). We have about 120 civilian guns per 100 people in the US, a total as mentioned earlier of about 393,347,000. The only way you're going to make a dent in those numbers is through confiscation. Wait...
There are a plenty of solutions out there that will not affect gun owners one bit and that will reduce gun violence in the nation as a whole, not just "for the children." "They're slaughtering our babiezzzz!!!!" Shit, I slaughtered a bunch on your mom's back, but who is arresting me?
The NRA needs to pull the stick out of its ass and the gun control lobby needs to understand violence in America isn't about guns.
But those don't make for good sound bites or campaign contributions. Money and power...
RE: "common sense" gun control. Yeah, nah. The gov't doesn't willingly give up something once taken from you.
There are two sides to this problem and two sides to the solution and those sides are the pro- and anti-gun lobbies. I do not like the NRA for a few reasons, but that's not the focus. As the largest, most vocal, pro-2A organization with deep pockets, it really needs to pull its head out of its ass. "Good guy with a gun" is a viable argument, but too heavily pitched. Video game violence...just shut up with that noise. Armed teachers, that's a bad idea. We're going to arm teachers and give them a half-assed qualification course to shoot in situations that elite units train for almost daily? Our own police can barely qualify and have a history of doing nothing during school shootings, so that Masters of Ed. holding algebra teacher is gonna' slay out like Rambo? The NRA can do better.
And the "gun grabbers" out there hold the emotional and thus the media high ground. They make for great, passionate sound bites that stir up a semi-educated, mouth-breathing social media lynch mob. Taking weapons from Americans won't solve the problem with gun violence in America. Cities with some of the most restrictive gun laws have some of the highest murder rates in the country (if not THE highest). We have about 120 civilian guns per 100 people in the US, a total as mentioned earlier of about 393,347,000. The only way you're going to make a dent in those numbers is through confiscation. Wait...
There are a plenty of solutions out there that will not affect gun owners one bit and that will reduce gun violence in the nation as a whole, not just "for the children." "They're slaughtering our babiezzzz!!!!" Shit, I slaughtered a bunch on your mom's back, but who is arresting me?
The NRA needs to pull the stick out of its ass and the gun control lobby needs to understand violence in America isn't about guns.
But those don't make for good sound bites or campaign contributions. Money and power...
TLDR20
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To the people saying the government never gives back rights and what not. They kinda did with the assault weapons ban right? We didn’t turn into a communist hellscape during that time? There are more AR’s in circulation than before?
I’m not debating the merits of the AWB. It didn’t really do anything. But they took away “rights” and we have them again right?
I’m not debating the merits of the AWB. It didn’t really do anything. But they took away “rights” and we have them again right?
Topkick
Verified Military
Yes, but there was a sunset on that ban.
MIkeH92467
Unverified
One of the things that gets lost is that from state to state "gun culture" means different things. Here in Idaho, just about everyone who grew up here has been around guns all their lives, knows how to use them, knows how to maintain them and knows how to use them. Very different from Florida where most of the above is not true. There's an awful lot of yahoos in Florida who probably went to the Barney Fife school of firearms. I do wonder when I'm back in Florida if there's not some idiot out there waiting for an excuse to prove their manhood by whipping out their weapon and putting everyone at risk, because they don't know WTF they're doing and might jack off a round in the process. Idaho is experiencing a high rate of immigration from other states, so our "gun culture" may change, but I hope not.
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That makes Zero sense. The ONLY reason the gun grabbing leftists and their RINO enablers havent succeeded more than they have is our uncompromising stance on the 2nd Amendment. Giving little victories to biden, schumer, and pelosi only emboldens them.
Did you actually look at anything I posted? Tell me what rights are being violated.
Here, I'll quote it for you since you haven't addressed it.
What are right wing solutions that tackle this problem?
Please, give me some. You can scream "No" all you want at the sky, but if you can't find anything more than that you're ensuring you'll lose those rights.
If you refuse to engage in developing solutions that maintain your rights, you ensure you'll lose those rights because of people who don't give a fuck about them.
TLDR20
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I have complicated thoughts on this issue. I am a firearm owner. I try to stay out of this discussion and see what people say because, honestly, I don’t want to see anymore mass shootings. But I also believe the 2A is important.
I think the most pro 2A people could learn a lesson or two in empathy. Immediately after a shooting maybe just shut the fuck up. Let a news cycle elapse and then go on. All the noise immediately post children getting murdered makes people look calloused, indifferent, and tone deaf.
Let your special interest groups lobby. Going on social media and what not and being like “idgaf about those kids, I want an AR-15, high capacity magazines and body armor even though I can’t sprint 15 yards” makes you look like the neck beard fool you are. Be a fucking human being for a day or two. Jesus.
I think the most pro 2A people could learn a lesson or two in empathy. Immediately after a shooting maybe just shut the fuck up. Let a news cycle elapse and then go on. All the noise immediately post children getting murdered makes people look calloused, indifferent, and tone deaf.
Let your special interest groups lobby. Going on social media and what not and being like “idgaf about those kids, I want an AR-15, high capacity magazines and body armor even though I can’t sprint 15 yards” makes you look like the neck beard fool you are. Be a fucking human being for a day or two. Jesus.
Topkick
Verified Military
I think this is defensive. My perception is that the anti -gunners immediately start attacking the 2A with "nobody needs an Assault Rifle". They jump right into talking about changing laws for the people who would never commit the crime. If you are a law abiding citizen who owns an Armalite Rifle, you get defensive. How about talking about addressing mental health and roping in people who state on social media that they are planning to shoot up a school...before they actually do?
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I don't think anyone wants mass shootings. Anyone who does, is obviously retarded. The overall problem, IMHO, is that people want to blame a firearm for a crazy person's actions. And until people accept that fact, we will continue to have a stupid argument.
"Hey I don't think you are sane enough to own a firearm, so were gonna restrict your right to have self protection"
Sounds great in theory, until everyone who doesn't agree with your personal view is unarmed, but yet you and everyone who thinks like you do are still armed...
But I will say, in my older "don't fucking care anymore" age... pass whatever laws you want, I will pick and choose whichever I will follow. Funny how you reach a point in life, when all opinions don't mean fuck-all unless you are willing to put your life behind it. Most won't, the few that will, probably ain't too worried what firearm I have or how I procured it.
$.02
"Hey I don't think you are sane enough to own a firearm, so were gonna restrict your right to have self protection"
Sounds great in theory, until everyone who doesn't agree with your personal view is unarmed, but yet you and everyone who thinks like you do are still armed...
But I will say, in my older "don't fucking care anymore" age... pass whatever laws you want, I will pick and choose whichever I will follow. Funny how you reach a point in life, when all opinions don't mean fuck-all unless you are willing to put your life behind it. Most won't, the few that will, probably ain't too worried what firearm I have or how I procured it.
$.02
TLDR20
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Like I said I’m not going to go into this discussion too much.
Some thoughts:
Are you willing to raise local taxes to “address mental health?”
Are you willing to nationalize healthcare to “address mental health?”
Are you willing to do anything to “address mental health?”
Topkick
Verified Military
Understandable. Both points of view are well known and both have legitimacy.
I watched a video, about however many billion we gave to Ukraine, could've put a SWAT team in every school, or some shit. Obviously sounds great as an argument.
We don't always agree, but 100% both sides of the argument need to STFU and "need" to address the mental illness problems within our nation. Not even getting into the mass shooting, SWAT'ing, bookface live killing people culture. How about we address every bit of the cultural impact of technology, morality change and social acceptable behavioral problems of today.
But I digress, spend the money on figuring out how we move forward as a society, or just pile on more laws and rules and watch us all break them?
Crazy talk! Canada pays lip service to that, mental health is the least funded part of health care; across the board. And mostly hires, equally as ill staff.
For rational people like yourself, it only makes sense but those actually defining policy on the left have only one goal; a disarmed society. Even if it's by a thousand cuts. That is very apparent here in Canada.
TLDR20
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Respectfully, and in all seriousness. Canada is not the US.
No version of our country is comparable to yours.
Our healthcare system is nothing like yours.
Our gun policy is nothing like yours.
Our mental health services are nothing like yours.
Our gun laws would need a million cuts to get started on where yours are.
The left is a broad generic term that doesn’t mean the same thing anywhere, or to any two people.
And though we live literally across an imaginary line from you, you have almost no mass shootings comparatively to us, even when accounting for population.(so maybe we should be a little more like you;))
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I do not typically comment , only read & process , but on this I feel some key points are being omitted from the "debate" ....
No legislation put forth by "congress" has stopped any criminal activity ever. Case in point, the war on drugs was/is an unmitigated disaster, so they've all but given up.
Offer , solutions ? There is no fix all solution, because no one can legislate "safety" ! Stopping evil from acting out is a zero sum game. If some recall back in 2012, in this very thread it was pointed out that in china there had been several school stabbings. Recently there was a mass casualty incident where a bow & arrow was used .... just like "9/11" & IEDs the terrorist only has to get it right once.
The Bill of Rights is , contrary to recent statements, Absolute! It codified The Rights of "We the People" , and it expressly restricts government, Not T"The People", which is blantly clear in the correspondence found in the Federalist & Anti- Federalist Papers.
Any "solutions" must be left to the local & state level of government, not Wash. DC
As for the mental health angle, no ground will be gained on that front until key research is acknowledged and factored into a "solution". Until expanded use of mind-meds , media sensationalism , destruction of historical social norms etc.... are dealt with, we're just spinning a hamster wheel.
I know the despair & anguish of burying a young child , albeit not from a mass shooting , but from someone else's negligence. It is the indiviidual who did the evil not the tool. Life is risky ! I am not advocating a "do nothing" approach, instead a "don't do too much".
Wash. DC is corrupt , out of touch , not representative of the Nation and therefore broken. Congress , nor the White House can fix "it". Hell, they don't want to, it is just another political "tragedy" strategy to distract from the broken political , economic & social systems of today.
No legislation put forth by "congress" has stopped any criminal activity ever. Case in point, the war on drugs was/is an unmitigated disaster, so they've all but given up.
Offer , solutions ? There is no fix all solution, because no one can legislate "safety" ! Stopping evil from acting out is a zero sum game. If some recall back in 2012, in this very thread it was pointed out that in china there had been several school stabbings. Recently there was a mass casualty incident where a bow & arrow was used .... just like "9/11" & IEDs the terrorist only has to get it right once.
The Bill of Rights is , contrary to recent statements, Absolute! It codified The Rights of "We the People" , and it expressly restricts government, Not T"The People", which is blantly clear in the correspondence found in the Federalist & Anti- Federalist Papers.
Any "solutions" must be left to the local & state level of government, not Wash. DC
As for the mental health angle, no ground will be gained on that front until key research is acknowledged and factored into a "solution". Until expanded use of mind-meds , media sensationalism , destruction of historical social norms etc.... are dealt with, we're just spinning a hamster wheel.
I know the despair & anguish of burying a young child , albeit not from a mass shooting , but from someone else's negligence. It is the indiviidual who did the evil not the tool. Life is risky ! I am not advocating a "do nothing" approach, instead a "don't do too much".
Wash. DC is corrupt , out of touch , not representative of the Nation and therefore broken. Congress , nor the White House can fix "it". Hell, they don't want to, it is just another political "tragedy" strategy to distract from the broken political , economic & social systems of today.
I am, but I want to see a plan first. I don't want to see a pork-filled bloated disaster. We're wiping student debt left and right, what if we wiped a person's debt in exchange for them becoming a psychologist? Or scholarships for students to choose that path initially instead of art history or some such nonsense?
There has to be a better way and we need to be honest: tangible results will take a generation or two. Stripping away the rights of our citizens is not the answer, but maintaining the status quo is also not the answer.
