United States & Gun Control discussion.

[RetPara]

Biden suggests White House could act without Congress as part of gun control plan

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/09/vice-president-to-meet-with-gun-safety-groups/#ixzz2HVYtEoQV








Biden is either throwing out a trial balloon or once again showing major symptoms of "Cranial Rectal Inversion" or "Podiatry Dental Syndrome."

 

[Marine0311]

The President is considering using Executive Orders on the issue of gun reform. Is that legal to do? What effect would it have?

I don't like the White House acting without Congress. This doesn't sound like the checks and balances I've come to read in history.

 

[AWP]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/u...bama-bypass-congress.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

For Mr. Obama, that meeting was a turning point. As a senator and presidential candidate, he had criticized George W. Bush for flouting the role of Congress. And during his first two years in the White House, when Democrats controlled Congress, Mr. Obama largely worked through the legislative process to achieve his domestic policy goals.

But increasingly in recent months, the administration has been seeking ways to act without Congress. Branding its unilateral efforts “We Can’t Wait,” a slogan that aides said Mr. Obama coined at that strategy meeting, the White House has rolled out dozens of new policies — on creating jobs for veterans, preventing drug shortages, raising fuel economy standards, curbing domestic violence and more.

 

[Marauder06]

There are things he can do with an EO that could circumvent the process and ultimately curtail the 2nd Amendment as we have come to know it. For example, he couldn't outlaw guns or ammo, but he could make it such an administrative PITA, or could tax the shit out of it, to the point where people get tired of dealing with it. Over time, the number of people who remember "how it used to be" will dwindle, and there will be less resistance to other, more lasting measures.

Generally speaking, you can't put money or manpower against Executive Orders, but you can do a hell of a lot inside those parameters.

 

[Chopstick]

In the spirit of the new direction of the administration I wished to be addressed as "Comrade Chopstick" from this day forward. (yes I said forward)

 

[JBS]

I fear we are all about to be faced with having to make choices we will not want to be forced into.

An Executive Order will cause unrest. It's about to get real if they try.

I am just imagining having to register rifles as Class III. Or magazines as Class III . It's inconceivable to me.

 

[Scotth]

The President is considering using Executive Orders on the issue of gun reform. Is that legal to do? What effect would it have?

I don't like the White House acting without Congress. This doesn't sound like the checks and balances I've come to read in history.

He would be limited in scope for what he could do. He certainly couldn't re-institute the AWB through executive order. He probably could issue changes to things like how the government conducts background checks and when or stop the sale of excess brass that reloaders like to use. On the plus side for him he could implement the changes quickly but on the other side of the coin they can just as quickly be terminated by the next President. The rules could be challenged by congress which could be hard to beat with the Democratic Senate but it's possible. There is always the possibility of a court challenge depending on what he tries to implement.

Right now it feels more like posturing for his base and telling the Republican we better talk about this issue or else.

For me I think the NRA and Republican's should be talking non-stop about mental health as the cause of these tragedies. As long as they are talking about guns they are losing. Behind the scenes they should be talking about stiffer penalties and more enforcement for straw buyers and closing the gun show loop whole as alternatives to an AWB. Going with a change nothing position is a losing position.

Republican's may block all legislative action but they will pay for it at the ballot box in '14.

 

[surgicalcric]

...For me I think the NRA and Republican's should be talking non-stop about mental health as the cause of these tragedies. As long as they are talking about guns they are losing...

Find myself partially agreeing with Scotth here.

But while we are talking about mental health, the glorification of killing that is so prevalent in movies, video games, TV, and music also needs addressing. Guns are no more so responsible for the killing of man than the spoon is for making overweight people obese.

 

[Scotth]

Find myself partially agreeing with Scotth here.

But while we are talking about mental health, the glorification of killing that is so prevalent in movies, video games, TV, and music also needs addressing. Guns are no more so responsible for the killing of man than the spoon is for making overweight people obese.

Exactly, when people on a TV show says they used a Bushmaster as multiple tragedies, the gun rights advocate should be interrupting, politely of course, and redirecting the discussion towards whatever was the particular malfunction for that shooter. Like you said it doesn't have to be a singular cause. The important point they should be constantly making is in each tragedy there was an underlying problem that was driving these people. Addressing that underlying cause is what is going to stop future tragedies and those are the real answers the American people are looking for.

 

[Ranger Psych]

​

So what they probably did is see that nothing has happened in these schools, refused to acknowledge that, & instead say “Not a single student has asked to live where guns are allowed.”

Or ignore the fact that as a general rule that pistol owners have to be 21+ and as such are usually already out and about on their own rather than staying in a dorm, instead spinning a useless fact as though it actually means something.

 

[Brooklynben]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...rt-in-new-york-city-is-best-in-114-years.html

Obama’s 81% Support in New York City is Best in 114 Years

CRAP! I guess there really is no hope for this wonderful place. It may be time for me to get serious about moving.

 

[Marauder06]

http://news.msn.com/us/harvard-professors-call-for-substantial-new-tax-on-guns-ammo

A group of Harvard professors is calling for a new national tax on all firearms and ammunition as part of a comprehensive strategy to curb gun violence in America.

The experts note that hefty taxes on tobacco products have funded anti-smoking campaigns and helped to drastically reduce the prevalence of cigarette smoking in the U.S. in the past few decades. Likewise, they say, a“substantial” national tax on all firearms and ammunition “would provide stable revenue to meaningfully target gun violence prevention.”

"Gun violence is a public health crisis, and addressing this will require a comprehensive, multidimensional public health strategy," said Dariush Mozaffarian, associate professor in the Department of Epidemiology at Harvard School of Public Health. "Our past successes in reducing other harmful behaviors and accidents provide a set of evidence-based tools to address the many underlying root causes of gun violence."

Mozaffarian is the lead author of an article published online this week in the Journal of the American Medical Association. The article outlines the case for a comprehensive public health approach to gun violence in the wake of the mass shooting last month at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in which 20 children and six adults were killed.

Gun-rights advocates expressed skepticism at the effectiveness and appropriateness of such a national tax.

 

[SpitfireV]

Firearms= smokes

 

[Marine0311]

Mom who shot intruder inspires gun control foes
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/09/3175167/mom-who-shot-intruder-inspires.html#storylink=cpy

LOGANVILLE, Ga. -- A Georgia mother who shot an intruder at her home has become a small part of the roaring gun control debate, with some firearms enthusiasts touting her as a textbook example of responsible gun ownership.
Melinda Herman grabbed a handgun and hid in a crawl space with her two children when a man broke in last week and approached the family at their home northeast of Atlanta, police said. Herman called her husband on the phone, and with him reminding her of the lessons she recently learned at a shooting range, Herman opened fire, seriously wounding the burglary suspect.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/09/3175167/mom-who-shot-intruder-inspires.html#storylink=cpy

 

[AWP]

Mom who shot intruder inspires gun control foes

No, no, no...these are isolated cases, Comrade and as such must be discarded from any discussion on gun control. Now, the tragedy at Sand Hook reflects the real mentally of gun owners and as such should dominate the discussion. For the Children! For the Children! For the Children!

 

[Marine0311]

Tough Path for Ban on Assault Guns Shifts Obama’s Focus

WASHINGTON — While President Obama pledged to crack down on access to what he called “weapons of war” in the aftermath of last month’s schoolhouse massacre, the White House has calculated that a ban on military-style assault weapons will be exceedingly difficult to pass through Congress and is focusing on other measures it deems more politically achievable

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/u...et-with-gun-advocates-including-nra.html?_r=0

 

[JBS]

So where will they strike first? Primers? Brass? HiCap mags? Or is this like when POTUS said he wouldn't sign the NDAA Indefinite Detention of Americans By Decree Without Charge Or Trial Act. Then he signed it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/01/03/ndaa-obama-indefinite-detention_n_2402601.html

Is this like feigning vulnerability? Whatever the case, our rights and liberties are being toyed with.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

My opinion is they will go after new background checks (criminal & mental) requiring any sell, transfer and current ownership to register in a national firearms registry (something like NFA). I think they will limit the sale of ammunition and require special reporting on sales over X amount of ammo in Y specific time period. I think they will require the registration (something like NFA) of hi-cap magazines, AR/AK type rifles/pistol (listing them as military small arms & equipment). And I think they will do it all by executive order/policy.

They will expect the challenge in the congress and SCOTUS, so they will try to get major retailers on board (hints the reason Dicks sporting goods and Walmart were part of the Joe Biden talks). They will also look to fuck with FFL’s on review of license, changing requirements, making it too hard to get an FFL.

They will start trying to go after ammunition components (powder and primers) apply new regulations, registration and licensing. Thus affecting the control, sale and tax on the components and actual cartridges. Probably associating it with current explosive material control laws/regs.

I think it will be a wide sweep all at once approach much like Obama used during the affordable healthcare act, the green energy push, etc.

What do I think we can do to limit/reduce the affects? State level government all the way. Each state is going to have to challenge the federal government on many levels. States will have to declare things like Firearms Freedom Acts and general states rights/10th amendments grounds arguments, etc. It will probably further inflame the secede movements in several states and further the political discourse between the liberal and conservative states/federal government.

In other words this will be the next step/push towards our second civil war.

 

[JBS]

What a worthless Congress we have.

And this is what happens when we lose a generation or two to strictly brain junk food like reality TV and when we tolerate 2 decades of failing schools with no quality History programs, and a Liberal sanitization of the events surrounding the Founding of the country. All those dumb flunkie kids have grown up and become voters. That, combined with flooding our nation with uncommitted, unintegrated foreigners lacking knowledge of- or love for -the principles of our Constitution, and we have a radically different composition as a national cross section. Our population has changed. Our values have eroded and the numbers of people who want to rely on government for nearly everything is now becoming the majority.

We will become a corrupt 3rd world hole within another decade if this continues. We are divided, dumber than ever as a whole, completely broken at the borders, bleeding out our once-distinct national identity and replacing it with a confusing mass of ignorance, 3rd world ideas ( demanding to be seen as equals) together with a uniquely American material-obsessed stupidity. All the while our traitorous politicians just keep endlessly promising to supply the needs of a gullible emasculated population with the attention span of a fruit fly.

 

[compforce]

And everyone's bestest friend (sarcasm!) had this to say...
NSFW - Language

Reactions like his will only enable Obama to go after the whole martial law thing and extend his stay in power