United States & Gun Control discussion.

Olofson's malfunction.

It didn't help that he bragged the weapon was "automatic" (even though it wasn't).

The prosecution advanced an argument, one that it consistently made throughout the trial, that: “a machine gun is any weapon that shoots more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function of the trigger.” whether Olofson’s AR-15 shot more than one shot at the single pull of the trigger as a result of a “hammer follow” malfunction “makes no difference under the statute: If you pull the trigger of a firearm once and it fires more than one round, no matter what the cause, it’s a machine gun.”[5]

Olofson requested the court include the definition of “automatically” set forth in Staples v. United States: “that once the trigger is depressed the weapon will automatically continue to fire until its trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted.” Refusing Olofson’s request, the trial court omitted the Staples definition, instructing the jury in the language of the statute that: “a machine gun is any weapon that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single pull of the trigger.”[5]
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Ranger Psych said:
H.R. 421: To amend the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 to enhance the COPS ON THE BEAT grant program, and for other purposes.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bil...source=govtrack/email_update&utm_medium=email

Posted for "and for other purposes", sounded like something they'd try to dick with to throw a curve ball. Monitor this one.
H.R. 427: To prevent the illegal sale of firearms, and for other purpoes. (typo on congress)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bil...source=govtrack/email_update&utm_medium=email

Obviously related, thing is... if firearms sales are already illegal... what in the fuck are you going to do, make it MORE ILLEGAL? :p
H.R. 431: To restore certain authorities of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to administer the firearms laws, and for other purposes.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bil...source=govtrack/email_update&utm_medium=email


ATF is already over-reaching. They are presented laws for control of items, and administer them entirely in a retarded manner.... IE, the Class III shoestring, putting people in prison for damaged firearms that broke on a range and went FA, etc.
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Maybe I'm going complete R-Tard right now, but for some reason I can't locate the actual text of these bills. Everytime I search gov't websites, or google which then takes me to a gov't looking website and click 'read bill' or something akin to that I get 'text of this bill hasn't been received as of this time' or something similar. What am I doin wrong here? :thumbsdown:
 
Marauder06 said:
Here is something else to keep in mind in all of this- this issue is in part a distraction. Liberals and others who want to rescind 2A know it will never happen. At least not in their lifetimes. But they also know that this is such a visceral issue to so many Americans on both sides of the ideological divide, that as long as they keep it front and center, it is going to completely eclipse everything else important that is going on right now. Smoke and mirrors with 2A on one side, and bread and circuses in the form of government handouts on the other.

What are we losing sight of as we focus everything on 2A?
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A VERY good point. But remember that for the first time in US history, this Socialist Administration has successfully suspended the Posse Comitatus Act and then gone on to pass the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) which effectively allows the President to authorize the arrest of any US citizen and hold them indefinitely without legal process or trial. All of this happened without any appreciable outcry in the Media or Press. The Attorney General is currently (legally) in "Contempt of Congress" but no one will serve him an arrest warrant. Nobody seems to care. Again for the first time in US History, The President now selectively controls the privacy of the mail and ALL other communication methods - and again, without any appreciable outcry or protest. The President hasn't attended a daily security briefing for months, but every Wednesday there's a White House meeting to determine who should be put on the (historically first overt) Administration's authorized assassination list - and at least 3 American citizens have already been put on this list and killed - without any trial.


So absolving the 2A now doesn't seem such a very far-fetched possibility to me. Because previously I would have argued that none of these rights and protections of freedom could possibly be taken away without the American voters revolting. But here we are.





Remember that the Liberals basically control the Media and the Press. The power of well crafted propaganda upon the ignorant and sheeple should never be underestimated. For example; just this morning I had to suffer a CBS "Morning Show" putting on a Georgetown U. professor stating that the Constitution was "old" and not in keeping with modern times - that Americans needn't; "suffer submitting themselves to it any longer". It was a marvelous scripted piece of propaganda, allowing the "Constitutional Expert" to twist his carefully chosen words for more than 8 minutes without any counter-point or comment. Welcome to the new 'United Socialist Union'. :wall:




 
Brooklynben said:
~snip NDAA...rabble, rabble
The President hasn't attended a daily security briefing for months, but every Wednesday there's a White House meeting to determine who should be put on the (historically first overt) Administration's authorized assassination list - and at least 3 American citizens have already been put on this list and killed - without any trial.
~snip
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Can you somehow confirm what's in bold?
 
We all want to kill terrorists. Arrange the transportation and I am ready to go with 12 hours notice.

The problem is putting the power to declare a death sentence for an American citizen through extrajudicial/extralegal means in the hands of the POTUS.

It's the slippery slopes of all M_ F_n' slippery slopes to give a sitting President the power previously only ever wielded by monarchs and tyrants.

We shouldn't confuse our unanimous hatred of-and willingness to destroy our enemies- with the aggregation of power by elected officials. And we should not abandon our legal system under any circumstances. Our legal system is the world's worst... except for all the others.
 
JBS said:
We all want to kill terrorists. Arrange the transportation and I am ready to go with 12 hours notice.

The problem is putting the power to declare a death sentence for an American citizen through extrajudicial/extralegal means in the hands of the POTUS.

It's the slippery slopes of all M_ F_n' slippery slopes to give a sitting President the power previously only ever wielded by monarchs and tyrants.

We shouldn't confuse our unanimous hatred of-and willingness to destroy our enemies- with the aggregation of power by elected officials. And we should not abandon our legal system under any circumstances. Our legal system is the world's worst... except for all the others.
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EXACTLY. Along with all the former safety measures written into the Bill of Rights and Constitution now being bypassed, POTUS now has complete control of the US Internet and power grids. Perhaps worse, every digital communication and transaction is now being recorded and stored. Further; I'm reading that with the new wireless power meters, electrical utilities can be easily tracked so as produce very detailed living patterns of people within their homes. Add this to the thousands of digital surveillance cameras and a very big potential problem clearly
begins to emerge.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely." - regardless of who is in power or who is in office.

Therefor now is definitely NOT the time to be allowing the guarantees of our personal liberties and freedoms to be mitigated or eliminated.
 
pardus said:
Seattle Gun BuyBack Get’s JACKED! Turns Into a Damn Gun Show!


Now this is funny.
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Damn. I can't wait for a buyback to go down near my area, so I can go withdraw a couple grand and load up. That's awesome.

HA! Look at this guy:
But Schuyler Taylor, a previous gun retailer attending the event in hopes of buying weapons, asked “Why not offer them cash versus a gift card? I’m still taking the guns off the streets; they’re just going in my safe.”
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And a petition that says "If gun-free zones make schools safer, why not disband the Secret Service and declare the Capitol a gun-free zone"

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...amilies-and-establish-gun-free-zones/6RDGkxLK

Now, I don't agree with the petition. There are very good reasons for the Government to be protected by armed PSS details. That said, it will be interesting to hear the response by the White House since the petition has enough signatures to meet the requirement.
 
Marauder06 said:
Here is something else to keep in mind in all of this- this issue is in part a distraction. Liberals and others who want to rescind 2A know it will never happen. At least not in their lifetimes. But they also know that this is such a visceral issue to so many Americans on both sides of the ideological divide, that as long as they keep it front and center, it is going to completely eclipse everything else important that is going on right now. Smoke and mirrors with 2A on one side, and bread and circuses in the form of government handouts on the other.

What are we losing sight of as we focus everything on 2A?
Click to expand...

It is all the issues coming down the pipe. The debt fight, budgets, debt ceiling, gun control and immigration just to name a few. Obama's counting on the typical knee jerk reaction from the Republican's to universally oppose anything he does. He is going to propose a reasonable gun law on universal background check. He isn't going to over reach for an AWB. He will give a little lip service to keep his base semi-happy but no bills coming out of the White House will focus on an AWB. I think he is counting on Republican to block every gun bill period. He is counting on the House to block any immigration effort.

He is looking at 2014 and he and the Democrats are all going to campaign that he tried to do this, that and the other thing but each step of the way the Republican's blocked the simplest solutions like universal background checks etc etc. He is focused on winning the war (midterm elections) by creating the narrative today and counting on Republican's to focus on the battle in front of them.

Not doing something gun control related will come back to haunt Republican's in 2014. Maybe not to the same degree as the Democrat were hurt after passing the last AWB but there will be a cost. If there is a shooting just before Nov '14 and nothing was done all bets are off.
 
Im not sure how scientific or accurate this is, but I took this "Online Poll" and as of my vote this is what the results are showing:

newsmaxpoll.jpg

Interestingly, Pa Representative Metcalfe's House Bill 357 (Right to Bear Arms Act) got a 71% approval in the Tribune-Review poll yesterday.
 

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