United States & Gun Control discussion.

[x SF med]

Aren't veterans considered "terrorists" or "risks" by DHS and Napolitano?

"Real" Americans need to start validating their creds by the number of watch lists they currently inhabit, last count I was at 23... and I still get in the TSA re-check lane. Guess the Air Marshalls don't want to alone on a plane full of sheep and terrorists.

 

[nobodythank you]

Man raises eyebrows carrying rifle through Atlanta Airport

LoL, guy has balls I'll give him that. From a citizen standpoint the officer needs to be reeducated on her jurisdictions laws and how to better handle citizen contacts. She certainly wasn't rude, but could have gotten more of the info she wanted with a little more sugar. From an officer standpoint, I can understand them wanting to follow him out and ensure no other citizens try to aggravate the situation and to fill our an FIR (Field Interview Report for those that aren't familiar with the terminology).

 

[compforce]

Man raises eyebrows carrying rifle through Atlanta Airport

LoL, guy has balls I'll give him that. From a citizen standpoint the officer needs to be reeducated on her jurisdictions laws and how to better handle citizen contacts. She certainly wasn't rude, but could have gotten more of the info she wanted with a little more sugar. From an officer standpoint, I can understand them wanting to follow him out and ensure no other citizens try to aggravate the situation and to fill our an FIR (Field Interview Report for those that aren't familiar with the terminology).

Just another idiot that's setting back efforts to support the 2nd amendment in his attempt to gain personal celebrity. He went there specifically to cause a spectacle and video it, not because he had a reason to carry openly. Honestly, I'm as pro-gun as they come. I carry concealed all the time and think we should be able to carry anywhere with a permit. There are only two possible outcomes to his actions. 1) nobody cares and he has his 2 minutes of fame OR 2) The legislature gets all hot and bothered and adds the airport to the very short list of places you can't carry in Georgia. How does either of those two outcomes move the conversation forward?

 

[nobodythank you]

@compforce I agree he was attention whoring. Academically speaking it doesn't really help move the conversation forward much other than to show his ability to exercise his rights. Is it a smart move? No probably not, but one he is perfectly justified doing. We all have the right to be idiots :wall:

 

[DA SWO]

He was trying to provoke her. She isn't the sharpest cop around, but I didn't find her questions out of line.

Escort him out and tell him to be safe, and have a nice day.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I put these guys right up with the fuck-sticks who do the same think in Starbucks. Get off my side.

 

[AWP]

Ugh. I feel for their loss, but we have another group of emotional do-gooders out to push their cause. You know, because they were so vocal about it before....

Alison Parker's parents addresses gun control - CNN.com

(CNN)—It's been less than a week since murder set their lives onto a new course, into roles they never wanted to take on and into a battle they never planned to fight.

But only five days in, Andy and Barbara Parker -- the parents of slain television journalist Alison Parker -- speak about gun control with a passion as if they'd spent their lifetimes fighting for it.

What frightens me is this quote, because you know they aren't alone.

"There are people out there whose minds we will never change," she said. "If you are a parent, if you are a mother, if you have children -- how can you look your child in the eye and say we are willing to allow you to be collateral damage in order to keep what some people perceive to be their constitutional rights? If we as a society are willing to accept that, what kind of society are we?"

To hell with mental illness or any one of several ways this could be prevented, let's go after your "perceived" Constitutional rights. If people were serious about this, they'd go after the Constitution and change it, but good luck with that. Instead, we'll bend or break the rules because our politicians are too weak to do the "right" thing.

Our perceived rights...bloody hell.

 

[Marine0311]

This is sad. I understand wanting to do something buy any attack on the Constitution will lead down a slippery slope.

 

[Red Flag 1]

I carry nearly everywhere I go, my 9mm Glock goes with me; even church. It conceals well, and I dress in a manner to keep it that way. It is my belief, that 90% + who carry and have had some training, would act to stop many of the shootings that happen. There is far more safety in being among people who are armed, and well trained, than in a place where weapons are banned. My $.02 from a bit north of Roanoke,Va.

 

[pardus]

This is sad. I understand wanting to do something buy any attack on the Constitution will lead down a slippery slope.

It's not sad, it's fucking treasonous!

 

[racing_kitty]

This genuinely made my head hurt after reading this. Apparently, the Honolulu PD doesn't trust their firearms vendors.

Many departments, like the Hawaii County Police Department are doing the same conversion, but they are getting some money for turning in the old weapons.

"Going to a vendor, the vendor takes all the weapons in bulk and gives them credit for each weapon," says Law Enforcement expert Tommy Aiu, "And then when they buy the new Glock weapon, they get credit for that which saves the county money."

Honolulu Police instead chose to destroy more than 2300 guns, potentially losing $500,000.

The department says that decision was made because they worried the old police guns would end up on the streets.

But Aiu says the vendors only sell to other law enforcement agencies.

"There are many smaller agencies... Selling or transferring a semi automatic to them, it provides a level of officer safety to those officers that don't have semi automatic weapons. So it's a good thing and that's what other agencies have done rather than destroy them."

I find their lack of faith (and common sense) disturbing.

 

[Totentanz]

I find their lack of faith (and common sense) disturbing.

The stupid, it burns....

 

[Marine0311]

Question for all:

Which candidates do you think have the best record pertaining to the 2A?

 

[Gunz]

Question for all:

Which candidates do you think have the best record pertaining to the 2A?

Bro, here's a link that lets you click on a candidate's name to get their basic stance on 2A issues.

Gun Control: 2016 contenders' views

 

[AWP]

I took the FBI's Violent crime data from 2012 and 2013 and compared that the Guns and Ammo Best States for Concealed Carry list for 2013. Yeah, the latter might not be the best source, but "best" is subjective and I had to start somewhere.

Prelim. results: Generally speaking, the "better" a state is for concealed carry the lower the rates of murder and violent crime per citizen. Blips exist in the data for both pro- and anti- 2A perspectives, but generally speaking concealed carry lowers crime rates.

State with the most murders AND the worst CCW rating? California. When you make the same argument for murders per person then you have North Dakota and Iowa, 9th (2012) and 16th (2013) respectively. CA then clocks in 18 and 22 on the list for 2012 and 2013.

I'll post some other prelim. numbers tonight.

 

[Marine0311]

This is the type of shit that pisses me off.

More than 51,000 assault rifles registered in state

I like those stats @Freefalling and yet people still don't understand.

 

[AWP]

I used Tables 5 (crime stats by state) and 20 (weapons data) for my info. The FBI admits that it doesn't have all of the data for Table 20, so the yearly numbers are off by about 2000 in 2012 and 3000 in 2013. With that said, we still have a pretty solid idea behind what weapons are used and how much.

2012: 12711 homicides. 8813 committed by firearms. 6,343 by handguns, 320 by rifles, 302 by shotguns, and 1,848 are of an unknown type. 69.3% of all homicides are with a firearm, 71.9 % with a handgun, 3.6 for a rifle, 3.4 with a shotgun, and 20.9 are unknown.

2013: 12,127 homicides, 8,357 with a gun, 5,738 handgun, 284 rifle, 307 shotgun, and 2,028 are unknown. 68.9% of all homicides are with a firearm, 68.7 of firearm-related homicides are with a handgun, 3.4 rifle, 3.7 shotgun, and 24.3 are unknown.

That means 2.51% of all 2012 homicides are committed with a rifle and 2.34% of homicides in 2013 are with a rifle. That doesn't distinguish between a hunting rifle or an AR/ AK style rifle. Remember that the next time someone's telling you about the evils of the little black rifle.

 

[AWP]

Finally finished those numbers. I've attached the top ten and bottom ten for concealed carry, broken down by murder and violent crime. These are further broken into the number of crimes per person and their rank within the US. This allows you to compare the states. I'm not a statistician, I just did some basic math, but the process is pretty straightforward. I've attached the results as a .JPG.

In a nutshell, and with only two years to compare. Murders and murder rates are down in the top ten, up in the bottom ten. Violent crime is the complete opposite. Why? No bloody clue. If you look at individual states the general pattern is the top ten has more single digit states than the bottom ten. We also have to remember there's a 2k disparity in 2012 and 3k disparity in 2013 between reported crimes and crimes where the weapon is known. The weapons types speak for themselves. (#blackriflesmatter)At the end of the day, if you can't trust the FBI's statistics then maybe we should solve that problem before tackling guns. If we're going to use numbers in support of our arguments, they need to be trustworthy or else our arguments are invalid.

2012:


2013:


Weapons:

 

[x SF med]

@Freefalling ... there is a disconnect in your numbers:
in 2012 WY has 19.3mm people, but in 2013 it has .6mm people
in 2012 UT has .6mm people, but in 2013 it has 2.9mm people
in 2012 HI has 1.6mm people, but in 2013 it has 10mm people

something is funny about the population numbers - that's just a sample... there are more

murder/person is way off... over 22K pp? violent crime pp at >200pp?

sanity check is needed. (that's what I get for being a data and finance geek)

 

[AWP]

@Freefalling ... there is a disconnect in your numbers:
in 2012 WY has 19.3mm people, but in 2013 it has .6mm people
in 2012 UT has .6mm people, but in 2013 it has 2.9mm people
in 2012 HI has 1.6mm people, but in 2013 it has 10mm people

something is funny about the population numbers - that's just a sample... there are more

murder/person is way off... over 22K pp? violent crime pp at >200pp?

sanity check is needed. (that's what I get for being a data and finance geek)

Good catch. I missed that.

I didn't compare the total population of the state and those numbers are pulled directly from the FBI's website. Table's 5 and 20. You make a great point, but it underscores one of my premises: if we can't trust the data and yet EVERY side quotes "the numbers" then why is this a discussion? As you well know if we don't have hard numbers or some type of facts then we're left with guesses? Emotions? "Bro logic?" I wouldn't support changing any law if those were the reasons, much less the Constitution.

People bring up background checks and how, if the system is overwhelmed, one can still purchase a gun. If the system doesn't return a hit you can still buy a gun. Ok, fine.

Where are the calls to fix THAT before they go for guns?

I know I'm largely preaching to the choir, but this whole debate, a very important one at that, hinges on BS, bad numbers, emotions, and whatever whargarbl we can dredge up than...you know, actual things that can be fixed.

I missed that level of detail, but it came straight from the FBI. If we can't trust the information provided by the top law enforcement arm in this country, then who can we trust? CNN? Fox? Some celebrity?

Nonsense.