could be www.dialaranger.com?
Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion
- Thread starter AWP
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
- Messages
- 140
Didn't you previously say you didn't want to attend, nor care about Ranger School? Centermass gave you the information that he received first hand, not from some HuffPo article.
Take it or leave it.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Then he could name is source. I'm taking the post as fact, but considering being credible is about citing sources, and in this case I cannot then idk. I know one of the women that was supposed to go, her dad told me the Engineering BDE pulled her to send her to best Sapper and then her partner was injured.
Maybe I'm just cynical but I have the impression that it is just a matter of time before women start graduating Ranger school and I don't think it will be because they met the standard. Good luck trying to drop a woman from the course for anything other than not making a time or some other hard quantifiable requirement.
Might I also recommend the RI's wear body cameras for when (not if) some female(s) start claiming the RI's are failing them because they're female, and not because they didn't meet the standard.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
- Messages
- 140
Dude, I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say here?
So, she went through RTAC and passed, along with just under 14% of the other women that attended; however, her command pulled her for best Sapper? Sounds like a shitty situation, maybe she'll luck into a winter class next time.
That's a better way of saying what I was getting at. It's a hot potato that some NCO is going to get stuck with holding.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
What experience do you have in the Infantry?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
You mean being dismounted? But in the Cav I've been on foot quite a bunch.
Florida173
SOF Support
Was that the only difference between my job as infantry and like every other job? I was curious
policemedic
Verified SWAT
I weep for the Army.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Dismounted Recon, if humping your shit in search of the enemy is not similar to the physical job of an infantrymen they need to stop sending Infantrymen to Cavalry Squadrons. Also this discussion is not just about the Infantry but also the Armor branch as well.
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I don't think it is an armor related discussion considering that you're basically our token blunted sabre, you espouse that you're a comissioned officer and leader in a dismounted patrolling cavalry unit, and you outright refuse to increase your understanding of leadership and dismounted operations by attending the best school the army has to offer about it.
I guess there's what, around 400 women in the army with more intestinal fortitude than you? Even if they failed, at least they stepped up to the plate and are better for it.
I guess there's what, around 400 women in the army with more intestinal fortitude than you? Even if they failed, at least they stepped up to the plate and are better for it.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
It doesn't stop me from wanting to have the standards maintained.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I said it, and I owned it.
pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 10,534
Curious statement...
Considering that Ranger school is "the standard" when it comes to leadership in the US Military, particularly in Infantry Ops which is the standard in itself when it comes to the Military. Especially from someone who says he kinda does the same thing as an Infantryman.
Remember, Infantry is the core/baseline/standard of all warfare from time immemorial.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
If it was the Standard then you'd get a Ranger Tab coming out of IBOLC or Infantry OSUT.
I was just about ready to bow out of this thread completely, but now, you've hit a nerve.
Let me ask you a question, based on your last statement: Are you fucking serious???
First off, NO ONE JUST GETS A RANGER TAB. YOU EARN IT WITH EVERY FIBER IN YOUR BEING, WITH HARD WORK, DEDICATION, PERSEVERANCE, DETERMINATION, BLOOD, SWEAT AND UNBELIEVABLE EFFORT.
For you to make a statement about "Just getting a Ranger Tab coming out of Infantry OSUT" shows not only your true colors, but your unbelievable arrogance as well.
I've seen guys like you. The ones that have this giant chip on their shoulder because there isn't a tab there. And because of it, they think the world should work differently when through their own self perception, they don't fit in. I've graded guys like you, who believed somehow, they were there for all the right reasons, when they weren't there for themselves, to make themselves a better leader, all because they thought it was something they should do because that's what they believed others thought.
Had a kid, one night, in the mountains, after a long and difficult mission, who over came the odds and earned himself an Honor Grad Go, (After having to unfuck everything the soup sandwich did before him) just come up to me after I counseled him on it and quit, right then and there on the spot. As I would later find out, this student had Honor Grad Go's on every one of his patrols. He also maxed everyone of his peers and was well liked in the class.
As he told me he wanted to LOM (DOR) I had to ask him "Why" He said it was for his family, and that was the most important thing to him in this world. He was having problems on the home front, that he kept to himself, while he was in school and they had only gotten worse. The next thing he told me is what blew me away. He said he was a wheeled vehicle mechanic in 2nd Ranger Battalion, and loved his job, but he went to Ranger School for all the wrong reasons. He went Ranger because his Dad was a Ranger and thought it was something he should do. He went on to add that if he passed the course, he would be one of only a handful of Ranger Qualified mechanics in the Army, and he would be in Battalion forever. And because of the OPTEMPO in Battalion, his marriage was already beginning to crumble before he left. And if he passed, things would only get worse. I never really entered the Army for myself, he went onto say, I did it because I thought my Dad thought I should do it.
I applauded him for his honesty and candor. I also chewed him out for wasting a slot and not thinking the whole thing through before hand. I then proceeded to fill out his LOM and went to great lengths to pass on my positive observations on his performance.
Now, what does all this mean? It means he could have had the Brass Ring and all the honor and accolades that went along with it. He was a natural. And even with that, he went to prove to his CoC, that he could do it, but, at a certain moment, once he proved his point, he let it go and knew, he would have to live with that all the rest of his days. So, what did he get in return? It may just have very well saved his marriage. He put his priorities in order and made a decision. Something that obviously meant a great deal more to him than "Just getting a Ranger Tab."
He made his peace and his decision and was fine with it. Which brings me back to you. We all have choices in life to make. Some are easy, others, can be downright painful and perplexing.
The bottom line here is Ranger School doesn't choose whether you would like to attend or not. You choose it...and when you do, you do it because you have to want it, for all the right reasons. Not because it makes you some kind of PX hero, not to fit in or shove it in anyone else's mug. You do it because it's what you want, deep down inside you, with all your heart and soul. Not everyone is cut out for it. Not everyone makes it. Not everyone gets a trophy. It ain't fair, and neither is life. Deal with the hand you were dealt. You can either sit, and watch things happen, or, you can get off your ass and make things happen. Your call. It's how grown up things are done in a grown up world.
You do it, because if you can lead men under those conditions, you can lead most men anywhere. It's no secret that the course is not some Hi Speed shoot em up secret squirrel spoof curriculum, or a place where you'll be read into the operations of highly classified units. It's a course about leadership, where you'll learn more about yourself, and who you are, when you are fatigued like you've never been before in your entire life, more hungry than you've ever known, cold, wet, miserable, smelly, and more stressed than you ever have been or will be, EVER, then anything else.
And here's a news flash: It is about the suck, has been about the suck and will always be about the suck. In the end, that's exactly what it was designed for.
For someone who seems to have a great disdain about something that rubs them the wrong way, you sure seem to have a great interest in it.
You want to be a leader? Then, I suggest you go be a leader and be the best damn one that ever walked the face of the earth or held a billet. But for Gods sake, quit making excuses or bitchin about everyone with a TAB but you.
And one other thing - If I post something on here "Ranger Related" you can take that and my 22 yrs AFS to the bank......Lieutenant.
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