Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

[Diamondback 2/2]

11B OSUT, or IOBC vs Ranger school is really immaterial IMHO. if we're talking individual skill, than someone with a Ranger tab should have a solid understanding in SUT and TLP (that's not always the case). The issue as with the NG gay ass 2 week course as with just graduating a commanders course or being a cherry out of OSUT. Is and always will be, experience. Nobody looks at a 2LT or PVT fresh out of Benning as anyone who knows anything about anything. Ranger tab? Fresh to the unit with no experience ain't much different. Someone coming from another unit, a few years under their belt, its different.

But honestly, on the lower level, its time with the troops, time to gel, developed SOP and TTP, its building that trust. It can be fast with experienced people, specifically the leadership, but it just takes time and drilling in the basics. A female E5 showing up with a 2wk 11B course will be about 5-7 years behind the curve in the guard and will have every E4/SPC hating her guts, who has been through Sand Hill, who has a deployment or two, who has his EIB/CIB and who was waiting for his promotion to SGT. But I've already stated all this BS, I digress. All the Army has to do, is make them hit the same schools, meet the same standards, and put in their time like everyone else...

 

[Etype]

There's a reason why no one thinks highly of national guard infantry

I don't think very highly of the fact that we used the NG in support of our world police operations.

If I were king, they'd remain focus on fighting large scale conflicts and be held in reserve for NATIONAL defense.

 

[Florida173]

Even though I don't agree with the system there Bud, that's some pretty arrogant shit you posted.

Hating the system is one thing, disrespecting them overall with a statement such as you did, demonstrates you still have a lot of maturing left to do.

Arrogant shit? What kind of BS is that? I didn't even mean it I the way that you are suggesting. I would have used some of the pronouns to denote that I feel this way..
But.. The active duty component infantry has never thought highly of their guard counterpart. Not once did I ever hear anyone stand up for them. My time deploying with at least one guard unit later on showed me that there's some good former active duty people in the ranks now, but when they deployed it was at least 1/3 IRR call ups to finish up the ranks.

I don't think as poorly of them as I once did, but that's mostly because of a generation of attrition from active duty that has filled the ranks. There's no disrespect there, it's reality and has been discussed enough times on this board. I'm all about the additional skills that our citizen-soldiers bring to the fight, but that's going to be mostly anecdotal.

It's likely that we'll see more and more females go infantry from the NG than the active side. It's probably better that way now with the op tempo as it is. Less impact.

 

[Florida173]

I don't think very highly of the fact that we used the NG in support of our world police operations.

If I were king, they'd remain focus on fighting large scale conflicts and be held in reserve for NATIONAL defense.

And their Defense Support to Civilian Authorities.

Being a Florida guardsmen, I've done my share of hurricane and special event support and see that the civilian side appreciates the support immensely.

 

[DA SWO]

There's a reason why no one thinks highly of national guard infantry

IIRC the Guard Infantry Bde out of Florida supported 5th SFG during the initial drive into Iraq, which means Guard Infantry Soldiers were there long before the 173rd made its jump into a secure drop zone, just saying.

 

[Florida173]

IIRC the Guard Infantry Bde out of Florida supported 5th SFG during the initial drive into Iraq, which means Guard Infantry Soldiers were there long before the 173rd made its jump into a secure drop zone, just saying.

I wouldn't take anything away from my friends over in the 53rd. Their stories of providing security in Jordan and Kuwait before their eventual movement into Iraq are legendary.

Your attempt to provoke on the otherside shows an ignorance that I will be happy to help you with. Rand published a great paper that goes in-depth to the reasons for the jump. Message me if you are interested.

BTW, the 173rd is the only unit to have ever allowed a female to jump into combat.

 

[Etype]

IIRC the Guard Infantry Bde out of Florida supported 5th SFG during the initial drive into Iraq, which means Guard Infantry Soldiers were there long before the 173rd made its jump into a secure drop zone, just saying.

I remember watching night vision video as a kid at the firehouse of FL NG soldiers clearing one of the berms for 5th Group HMMWVs to drive through.

Pretty cool.

That was a mission to be proud of for them.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

@Florida173, your comments are disrespectful.

I'm all about fairness, so what quantitative experience do you draw from to make the comments you have made? Obviously you were with the 173rd (amazing unit) but did you serve with NG Infantry, have you deployed as a member of an NG Infantry unit? Have you worked as an instructor or OC/T that has validated/trained/certified both NG and AD Infantry units?

What experience brought you to the conclusion that NG Infantry is vastly not respected by AD?

I can make long lists of BS, that shows both sides of the argument. I'm not going to waste my time. So as a NG Infantry soldier (no regular Army) who spent a combined time of almost 3 yrs in Iraq, who spent almost 3 yrs time training RC/NG/RA soldiers and who made it a personal goal to be better than everyone else regardless of branch or status. Please tell me why you or any other AD soldiers do not respect me or my service? Or more so my brothers who lost their lives soldiering in as Infantrymen, or the countless brothers I have that if told something like what you wrote personally would knock the shit out of that person.

It's one thing to have service rivalries and talk shit about each other, it's something totally different to blatantly disrespect the contributions made by the thousands of NG Infantry soldiers who right seat/left seat with their AD counterparts and accomplished their mission just like everyone else...

 

[DA SWO]

I wouldn't take anything away from my friends over in the 53rd. Their stories of providing security in Jordan and Kuwait before their eventual movement into Iraq are legendary.

Your attempt to provoke on the otherside shows an ignorance that I will be happy to help you with. Rand published a great paper that goes in-depth to the reasons for the jump. Message me if you are interested.

BTW, the 173rd is the only unit to have ever allowed a female to jump into combat.

I don't need a Rand paper, it's called: URGENT FURY, Lessons Learned, same reason used for some of the jumps into Panama during JUST CAUSE.
As far as woofing shit goes, your fellow jumpers do a good job; and no, you were not the first unit to put females into combat; the OSS beat you to it by a few decades.

 

[policemedic]

I don't need a Rand paper, it's called: URGENT FURY, Lessons Learned, same reason used for some of the jumps into Panama during JUST CAUSE.
As far as woofing shit goes, your fellow jumpers do a good job; and no, you were not the first unit to put females into combat; the OSS beat you to it by a few decades.

There's a difference between JUST CAUSE and some other jumps. As I recall, the jump into Rio Hato airfield--controlled by the enemy, not US Army SF--didn't have to be reclassified after the fact for the guys to earn their mustard stain. Then again, that's because they actually jumped into a firefight so it was pretty obvious.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I don't think there is any reason to knock the 173rd, the fear of jumping into the unknown and the suck they dealt with after has my undying respect. Those guys earned their mustard stain as far as I'm concerned.

I'm personally more interested in @Florida173 reasons for disrespecting me and my brothers.

 

[AWP]

This is entertaining but we're not going to let one person's BS side track a whole thread. Y'all need to hurry along and wrap up this little sidebar.

 

[Florida173]

Meh. I already said I misspoke and didn't mean it any more than the over generalization that occurs about the National Guard that's apparently ground breaking to thin skinned people in here.

No one cares about my deployments on both sides as some sort of anecdotal bonefides. Already stated what occurs and how things have generally changed since I've left infantry due to the attrition from active duty. If your curious I'd be happy to grab a beer with you at anytime and tell war stories.

I don't care about @DA SWO 's ignorance of what occurred on my jump. The mustard stain was known immediately, not some time later.

As for the first female jumper, I was referring to Catherine Leroy's jump with the herd in Vietnam during Junction City. I'm not familiar with other documented females to jump before that into combat, but if you can give me a source I'd be happy to update my info.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Nobody is thin skinned, just not going to let you off the hook for being disrespectful. If you want to drop it and move on, no worries, but I think you absolutely showed your ass with the last few posts. I'll leave it at that...

 

[DA SWO]

This is entertaining but we're not going to let one person's BS side track a whole thread. Y'all need to hurry along and wrap up this little sidebar.

Last off topic response.
@Florida173 go look at the thread regarding the 173rd's jump. I supported the decision to jump in and award a Combat Star (and still do), then take a second look at my post. I pointed out that Guard Infantry were in the fight while the 173rd was in Italy.

You are acting butt-hurt and thin skinned whenever someone comments about the jump.


Now back on topic.
Looks like AETC is outlawing motivational PT. I think it's to increase the flow (i.e. add females) through the training pipeline.
STTS is going to be an eye-opener for many Airmen.

 

[Etype]

I've done helicopter assaults into a few places, and rapids off a C-130- I want my arrowheads.

 

[Brill]

I've done helicopter assaults into a few places, and rapids off a C-130- I want my arrowheads.

Were there CSTs with you (tying this back to SOFt chicks)?

 

[ThunderHorse]

What will the House do...Senate approves women registering for the draft - CNNPolitics.com

 

[104TN]

What will the House do...Senate approves women registering for the draft - CNNPolitics.com

Hopefully approve. If we're a country of equal rights than it stands to reason that citizens should have equal responsibilities.

 

[Brill]

Hopefully approve. If we're a country of equal rights than it stands to reason that citizens should have equal responsibilities.

Equal rights and diversity are not the same thing.