2016 Presidential Race

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For those on the thread leaning Democrat - @Deathy McDeath and @DasBoot, maybe @TLDR20? - what is it about Governors Bush, Kasich, and Christie you find you could vote for? I consider myself a liberal and will most likely be voting for the Democratic nominee. While I consider those three the best of a bad bunch their policy positions on all but a handful of issues make it difficult for me to see myself voting for any of them. I'd be interested in another perspective.
 
For the Trump supporters out there- I hate the guy. He represents what a shit show this entire process is.

Can any of you make a coherent case that he could/should actually hold the office? I mean- zero political experience, zero policies, and he's abrasive and childish to the press, IMO.
Not that I am fully behind Trump yet, but here goes…

Both sides of the political spectrum (Congress & the Administration) have been bickering over the last 8 years with little to no compromise except when it benefits both secretly. I think we can all agree the system is infected. It needs to be shaken up if not rebuilt. The right is forceful with attempting to impose religious beliefs on others while crying about the attack on Christianity (even though it has been and continues to be the dominant religion in the world for at least the past several centuries), and screwing over those that need help. The left has been preoccupied with pushing every social agenda possible, taking offense at everything, seeing racism at every turn, and screwing over anyone that is successful.

How can Trump fix any of this? Maybe he cannot. However, he stands the most likely person to shake up the system and force both parties to reevaluate their core ideology and interaction with the public. You have to ask yourself, what is one of the biggest problems in politics? Money. The money that large corporations and lobbying firms are pumping into the coffers of politicians on both sides. Trump has a unique opportunity to shake up and break the two party stalemate this country has found itself in. He speaks his mind, and is in better touch with the average voter than any diehard Conservative or Liberal. His money does not preclude him from lobbying, bribes, favors, and other things, but it does give him the most likely chance of refusing those things than the other candidates. He does not have government experience, but I offer the suggestion that maybe it is what this country needs at this point in time? He can negotiate with anyone for anything in a business setting. Diplomacy is the art of negotiation, who better to conduct that than someone who does it for a living? If anyone can build a compromise between the two parties in control it is Trump.

Let us not forget how "transparent" the current administration has been. Not to mention excluding press members that do not stick with the approved narrative in the White House press corps. Trump is blunt and the media does not like him, so what? Journalism has long since left its honesty and integrity in the grave. Until I see a press agency that is truly impartial I won't shed too much sleep over his apparently honest and justified reactions to the misquoting of what he has said for the purposes of flare.

While his policies have yet to reveal themselves, and could very well negate the previous paragraphs, as it stands at this moment he is the best candidate present that can change the status quo. What’s more, the polls seem to indicate that the public thinks so too. He may very well be the worst president of all times, then again he could be the best in recent history. The point being that he is the one most likely to shake up the continual left vs. right deadlock.
 
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@ke4gde I don't agree Trump would make a good President, nor do I agree with all your points. However, I have to say that's the best pro-Trump case I've yet to hear - and that includes all the talking-heads in the media.
 
Since Trump's wealth has been brought up a few times here and since The Donald has valued himself at ~$10 billion, I figured I'd share an article/blog I read a few weeks ago concerning this very topic. Granted, it's a contrarian view to Trump's wealth and only Trump knows what he's truly worth, but it's certainly thought provoking nonetheless.

Trump Change: Is Donald Trump Broke?—The Alpha Pages

"Trump’s FEC document impresses me as the statement of a person who does not have much of anything other than himself – he is his own product. He is the professional wrestler of the financial world – a person who is famous for being famous, the tragic product of a society that produces images instead of actual things."

The guy who wrote this admits he has no evidence and is basing his whole premise of "Trump is broke" on, "I base this judgment on many years of working closely with very rich people." "Trump does not speak, act, or behave like a normal billionaire."
 
@ke4gde @Marine0311 @SpongeBob*24 @racing_kitty - thanks for the education. I am not sold, and I literally cringe every time the guy talks, and I just cant imagine he has great ideas as far as GWOT or really anything other than economics. Can you imagine him sitting across from Putin and going at it? He'd get his shit handed to him. And I really don't need a dude alienating 51% of the population because he thinks girls that are 'mean' to him must be bleeding from... somewhere.

@racing_kitty - I see that you're angry as shit at the current Pres, but you'd say that Trump has a better interaction with the press than President Obama?
 
AWESOME SAUCE....that is the first time my name has been hyperlinked....dad would be so proud!

I'm just now back on the GRID! I have no clue who is running on the Donkey side......however.....Kerry has ties to terrorists and Hillary should be in jail.

Can you imagine them sitting on the other side of Putin.........? They'd probably drink vodka and talk bad about Reagan.

Bottom line, I think people want a change! The same change everyone needed in 2008.....:thumbsup:
 
For those on the thread leaning Democrat - @Deathy McDeath and @DasBoot, maybe @TLDR20? - what is it about Governors Bush, Kasich, and Christie you find you could vote for? I consider myself a liberal and will most likely be voting for the Democratic nominee. While I consider those three the best of a bad bunch their policy positions on all but a handful of issues make it difficult for me to see myself voting for any of them. I'd be interested in another perspective.
I put a lot of stock in leadership ability and pragmatism. I see both of those in Bush. He is also a compassionate conservative who has the same ends as myself though we differ on the means. His policies I do not like are not so far out there I couldn't vote for him.

Same for Christie. Add in that I like his genuine nature and his social policy is closer to mine than Bush. I'm a New England Republican/Florida Democrat/ commie socialist in South Carolina so a guy like Christie hits in the center, right where I'm at. And he loves "the boss."
 
@racing_kitty - I see that you're angry as shit at the current Pres, but you'd say that Trump has a better interaction with the press than President Obama?

You could say that I'm not enamored with him. Angry as shit is an adjective that best describes my attitude towards Congress. POTUS behaves less abrasively than Trump while in the presence of press reporters. However, his administration's track record as far as the press goes has been less than stellar. The New York Times, as well as other news outlets, have made note that the Obama administration has been harder on whistleblowers and the reporters they talk to than any other administration up to this point. I'm not talking about perennial conservative talking heads like Megyn Kelly or some blonde fuckwit named Doocey. I'm talking about the likes of Bob Schieffer, Jill Abramson, and Susan Page. Care to guess who they voted for in '08 and again in '12?

You don't have to like the press, or trust them any further than you can throw your truck, but you must admit that as long as they are impartial (I know, impartial reporters are extinct these days), the light that they shed on their subjects is vital to the public knowing what their elected officials are up to. Just like the old saw about good fences make good neighbors, good reporting makes for an informed populace which one hopes would lead to good governance. Deep Throat talking to the press led to the downfall of Nixon. Would the shenanigans of the Nixon administration ever have fully come to light if that hadn't happened? Would he have stepped down if the reporter that broke Watergate got hauled in on charges of violating the Espionage Act (1917)?

It's not just the government, either. When you were younger, did you ever watch the crew from 60 Minutes pop up with cameras in tow to call to task some executive that got caught doing what he shouldn't have been? For every one crooked bastard that got caught, there were several more who were discouraged from doing what they shouldn't have been doing just because of the fear of seeing Morley Safer or Ed Bradley on their doorsteps.

There's a reason that the press enjoys the protection of the First Amendment like it does. That's a lot of power in their collective hands. Love or hate them, the press have a purpose. For Obama's supporters to be this worried about press freedoms is a damning indictment of how business is being conducted. While POTUS himself is not rude or crass to the press, you damned well can't say he's not aware of how his cabinet is handling the press because there's too many staffers to keep track of (didn't someone make that argument for HRC?). He has a press secretary (Robert Gibbs) and an adviser (Valarie Jarrett) who answer directly to him and take orders directly from him (or from ValJar, depending). The press today dances uncomfortably close at times to the line between news and propoganda (although MSNBC blew past that line eons ago). Their concerns do not strike me as a collective temper tantrum over being denied access to something.

Take from that what you will.
 
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I don't necessarily disagree.

I just wonder- I think what you're saying is that this Obama administration has been restrictive of a press system you don't agree with... Would someone so adversarial to the press, reporters (literally performing ad hominem attacks via twitter of prominent reporters) be good for the President?
 
Would someone so adversarial to the press, reporters (literally performing ad hominem attacks via twitter of prominent reporters) be good for the President?

Could you phrase that one part differently? I'm not sure I follow what you're asking.
 
Could you phrase that one part differently? I'm not sure I follow what you're asking.
Yep, sure. Re reading it, it wasn't as clear as it could have been. How dare you not be in my brain?! I think in the internet world, I am supposed to make fun of you.

Would someone (Trump) (who has historically been) so adversarial to the press (and), reporters (literally attacking them personally any time he feels the slightest twinge of ego after an interview that didn't go his way) be a good stance/trait of someone holding presidential office?

In response to Megyn Kelly calling trump out for the 'blood' comment- what did Trump do? He linked to Megyn on the Howard Stern show talking about her boob size as some sort of "aHA youre not perfect either!" moment. Is that how we want to represent our country?

Truly sorry, my brain outran my fingers.
 
Yep, sure. Re reading it, it wasn't as clear as it could have been. How dare you not be in my brain?! I think in the internet world, I am supposed to make fun of you.

Would someone (Trump) (who has historically been) so adversarial to the press (and), reporters (literally attacking them personally any time he feels the slightest twinge of ego after an interview that didn't go his way) be a good stance/trait of someone holding presidential office?

In response to Megyn Kelly calling trump out for the 'blood' comment- what did Trump do? He linked to Megyn on the Howard Stern show talking about her boob size as some sort of "aHA youre not perfect either!" moment. Is that how we want to represent our country?

Truly sorry, my brain outran my fingers.

No worries, dude. That happens from time to time, especially when the brain is working overdrive. Besides, your taunting wouldn't hurt me. I'm from Alabama, the jokes have already written themselves (especially the Helen Keller jokes when I was growing up). Do your worst! :thumbsup:

Trump's adversarial approach to the press is unprofessional, in my opinion. Ad hominem attacks are never professional. Be that as it may, Trump's blunt force approach towards the press is seen by the general public as more refreshing than the current POTUS's passive aggressive approach. One is classless, the other is spineless. Neither one is conduct befitting the office of President of the United States.
 
No worries, dude. That happens from time to time, especially when the brain is working overdrive. Besides, your taunting wouldn't hurt me. I'm from Alabama, the jokes have already written themselves (especially the Helen Keller jokes when I was growing up). Do your worst! :thumbsup:

Trump's adversarial approach to the press is unprofessional, in my opinion. Ad hominem attacks are never professional. Be that as it may, Trump's blunt force approach towards the press is seen by the general public as more refreshing than the current POTUS's passive aggressive approach. One is classless, the other is spineless. Neither one is conduct befitting the office of President of the United States.
HERE is where my distaste lies.

My mother in law (whom I love, a lot) posited this argument and we had the same discussion.

"Trump says the things that Average American thinks, but won't say, and that HELPS."

I am the average American. I don't think Mexicans are rapists. I don't want a wall that Mexico will pay for because I said so. When I disagree with people, I don't judge them on unrelated issues for my own benefit and their destruction and make that public to millions of people. He's not direct, he's not blunt- he says shitty stuff without repercussion and is actually just as passive as this administration. Only he's passive aggressive, which is worse.

Bottom line- Trump isn't fit for public office, and I agree.
 
HERE is where my distaste lies.

My mother in law (whom I love, a lot) posited this argument and we had the same discussion.

"Trump says the things that Average American thinks, but won't say, and that HELPS."

I am the average American. I don't think Mexicans are rapists. I don't want a wall that Mexico will pay for because I said so. When I disagree with people, I don't judge them on unrelated issues for my own benefit and their destruction and make that public to millions of people. He's not direct, he's not blunt- he says shitty stuff without repercussion and is actually just as passive as this administration. Only he's passive aggressive, which is worse.

Bottom line- Trump isn't fit for public office, and I agree.

Awww, come ooooooooon... You can't tell me that this isn't your idea of the perfect administration for all that is manly man?

idiocracy-defile.jpg



Figured now was the moment for a little levity, although we as a society aren't far from this point.
 
Awww, come ooooooooon... You can't tell me that this isn't your idea of the perfect administration for all that is manly man?

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Figured now was the moment for a little levity, although we as a society aren't far from this point.
HAHAHAHAHA. I award the majority of interwebs points to you, RK.
 
The fact that Trump carries so much weight in a presidential discussion speaks volumes about the current state of US politics.

Seriously, how many supporters view him as the only way to break the log jam, the only way to unbalance the status quo, the only "fresh" voice in a sea of partisan mediocrity? How many people cringe at what he says but are just happy to hear someone say something that isn't bland and watered down?
 
@ke4gde @Marine0311 @SpongeBob*24 @racing_kitty - thanks for the education. I am not sold, and I literally cringe every time the guy talks, and I just cant imagine he has great ideas as far as GWOT or really anything other than economics. Can you imagine him sitting across from Putin and going at it? He'd get his shit handed to him. And I really don't need a dude alienating 51% of the population because he thinks girls that are 'mean' to him must be bleeding from... somewhere.

@racing_kitty - I see that you're angry as shit at the current Pres, but you'd say that Trump has a better interaction with the press than President Obama?

@amlove21

Perhaps if you look at it a different way. What kind of leader do you want? The ones we have had in the past or someone that tells you like it is to you face? You may disagree with his style but what about the message? I will concede that tone and deliver is important however I'd rather be told to my face.
 
@racing_kitty for President of SS-istan!!!!

I would rather have Trump sit across from Putin and tell him the truth than have a President bend over to smell King Abdullah's junk. Seriously, I think that Trump would have the "command climate" that only tolerates straight shooters, accountability, etc and BS-ers would be sent packing...publicly.

The scandals at IRS, VA, OPM, DOS, etc would most likely be nipped in the bud before they even became scandals. A business leader like Trump is programmed to always make moves to progress upward due to the incentives (financial, personal, etc) whereas idealists like Obama honestly believe his plan/ideas are right regardless of conflicting information, which MUST be wrong. People like Bill and Hillary are honestly pathological.

Leadership...the American people are crying out for leadership but I don't think we're ready for Trump to be in the WH but are most definitely trying to signal their desire to break the logjam as @Freefalling wrote.
 
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