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I would not hold your breath, he's not been on the site since May of 2012.
An Aviator will be next CG MARSOC
- Thread starter tigerstr
- Start date
I’ve been around for a minute and I’ve never heard of that study. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I will say it doesn’t sound particularly relevant or valid today.
I know this is off topic from the original thread, but since it has been dead for years...
I actually wanted to see the references study to examine the basis of determining ANGLICO rates among the SOF community, since I feel like it might actually be more valid today.
The active duty ANGLICOs just got back into the business of jumping officially, and now have a quota to send Marines through Fort Benning again.
The ANGLICO T&R also now includes HRST and small boat/scout swimmer operations- so while the community isn't MARSOC by any means, I'd think it is inching closer to SOF now than it was 5 or 6 years ago in any case.
I'd like to argue for allowing ANGLICOs that have habitual relationships with certain other service units to attend those service's special skills schools/courses, which by policy we aren't able to do- so any references in support I'd welcome.
I think they send folks to airborne but they don’t have a jump mission. Jump mission equals paraloft and parachutes on the T/E. I also don’t really believe static line parachuting is a viable insertion method anymore honestly.
So this FY they have an actual quota to airborne school again, which means jump coded bics at the unit. They were sending people here and there on bic waivers for excess seats before- this straight from a conversation I had last week (week before? My op tempo is running my days together) with MSgt Brukardt at the Benning MARDET.
I am a reservist as of late, so my unit has always had a jump mission- but I was surprised that the Marine Corps brought back jump billets to the active duty ANGLICOs without permitting them to go to freefall, which is were my interest comes into play here.
The Marine Corps MMPS course is already hardly able to keep up with demand from Recon and MARSOC- but is the only approved MFF school for attendance by Marine Corps personnel. Wouldn't it make sense for the Marine Corps to allow units like ANGLICO, dedicated to supporting other service, foreign, and SOF forces, to attend the MFF course of the supported service? This ideq came up when the CO of an Army SF unit asked me about the ability of FCTs to support his teams- he was blown away that we are not allowed to attend training that would enable us to infiltrate with them.
I agree with you, I think against any near peer foe low level static line is dated at best- we should be training free fall.
ANGLICO traditionally had the static line jump mission to conduct joint operations with Army airborne units for mass parachute insertions. The ANGLICO units may be adding jump billets to their T/O, but I doubt the cash strapped Marine Corps is buying structure to rebuild the ANGLICO paralofts. You can't claim a jump mission without personnel, equipment, safety structure, and training program associated with a paraloft.
The Navy and Marine Corps built our own freefall schools because the Army freefall school could not support our requirements. The Army is not going to open up seats to Marine Corps units without a service validated requirement for training. And money of course. Let's take that a step further. A school without sustainment is a waste of time and money. It's also incredibly dangerous. The Marine Corps would have to purchase the Army's freefall parachute, which I believe is still the MC-4) and train all of our riggers to pack this parachute. Keep in mind that ANGLICO doesn't rate any riggers or a paraloft at this point.
The Air Force already supports the Army Special Forces community with TACPs and CCTs. The Marine Corps doesn't have the money to invest in freefall parachute programs for all of our specialized communities that could use them such as HET, EOD, and ANGLICO. Furthermore, military freefall school does not grant a unit a freefall capability. That takes months of follow on unit training that is frankly beyond an ANGLICO's capability, or requirement, at the moment and would take a significant investment of time, manpower, and money to achieve. ANGLICO's mission is to provide MAGTF commanders with a liaison capability and to plan, coordinate, employ, and conduct terminal control of fires in support of joint, allied, and coalition forces. That does not require a military freefall capabiltiy. In reality, very few special operations missions require parachute insertion. The kinds of missions that do require this kind of off-set infiltration probably exceed the baseline training of the individual ANGLICO attachment. As I mentioned before, the SF already have fully trained organic JTACs, USAF TACPs, and CCTs that already have advanced special operations and specialized insertion capabilities that can support their more sensitive and high risk fire support coordination requirements. If a SOF unit still really wants to jump an ANGLICO Marine into an operation, they can jump them in a tandem parachute system.
The Navy and Marine Corps built our own freefall schools because the Army freefall school could not support our requirements. The Army is not going to open up seats to Marine Corps units without a service validated requirement for training. And money of course. Let's take that a step further. A school without sustainment is a waste of time and money. It's also incredibly dangerous. The Marine Corps would have to purchase the Army's freefall parachute, which I believe is still the MC-4) and train all of our riggers to pack this parachute. Keep in mind that ANGLICO doesn't rate any riggers or a paraloft at this point.
The Air Force already supports the Army Special Forces community with TACPs and CCTs. The Marine Corps doesn't have the money to invest in freefall parachute programs for all of our specialized communities that could use them such as HET, EOD, and ANGLICO. Furthermore, military freefall school does not grant a unit a freefall capability. That takes months of follow on unit training that is frankly beyond an ANGLICO's capability, or requirement, at the moment and would take a significant investment of time, manpower, and money to achieve. ANGLICO's mission is to provide MAGTF commanders with a liaison capability and to plan, coordinate, employ, and conduct terminal control of fires in support of joint, allied, and coalition forces. That does not require a military freefall capabiltiy. In reality, very few special operations missions require parachute insertion. The kinds of missions that do require this kind of off-set infiltration probably exceed the baseline training of the individual ANGLICO attachment. As I mentioned before, the SF already have fully trained organic JTACs, USAF TACPs, and CCTs that already have advanced special operations and specialized insertion capabilities that can support their more sensitive and high risk fire support coordination requirements. If a SOF unit still really wants to jump an ANGLICO Marine into an operation, they can jump them in a tandem parachute system.
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I know you didn't mention this, but I think it bears mentioning in this conversation. The DOD can use static line airborne operations to deploy forces into an area without a suitable airstrip but I think we are fooling ourselves if we think they can do in a contested area. The muilt mission parachute system (MMPS) offers a tempting military freefall alternative in the double bag static line configuration but personally I am not sure we should be jumping that configuration anymore because of safety concerns. You will hurt your pride and all your points of contact if you goon up your regular static line exit and landing, but you may kill yourself if you don't follow DBSL procedures correctly. Airborne operations, and military diving for that matter, are inherently dangerous operations and we have to ensure that we do these operations, and train for them, because of operations requirements and not operational desires.
Does ANGLICO send Marines to SERE? That seems like a valid operational requirement.
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I don't know about the active side re: SERE, but we do ostensibly send people to SERE on the reserve side. That said, I have been told I'm possibly the only person in my current unit who has attended SERE- and that was with my civilian government job.
I'd like to see ANGLICO get quotas to the foreign advisor course (in line with T&R requirements to integrate with FSF, and to assist FSF in assault planning, terminal control, etc) and increased SERE throughput.
