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WillBrink
Guest
I'm voting for changing from 9mm to LAW rocket.:doh:
Beretta M9
- Thread starter skeeter
- Start date
I'm voting for changing from 9mm to LAW rocket.:doh:
skeeter
Unverified
I agree with WillBrink that it should be changed to a LAW
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WillBrink
Guest
I agree with WillBrink that it should be changed to a LAW
Let's get a petition going! :eek:
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8'Duece
Guest
Knock down power to me is a relative term.
When the LAPD where facing two guy's with full body armor and full auto AK's what did they do with the Beretta ?
They continued, despite the recogntion of body armor, to take shots COM. One well placed head shot would have ended that episode long before it became national news. Just an observation.
With modern JHP's I don't think I'd like stand in front of 9mm Luger handgun in the hands of a well trained shooter.
Also consider that .45 ACP 230 grain ammunition dumps 390Ft/Lps of energy to the target within 25 meters, while more modern 9mm luger higher pressured rounds are dumping close 500Ft/Lps of kenetic energy in the same distance. I hate to see what two or three shots Corbon DPX or Ranger SXT 115 grain 9mm Lugers would to someones torso.
Is the .45 ACP really the answer, conidering it has no chance of penetrating light body armor ??
My vote would go to the 9x23 or a 10MM cartridge for that purpose, assuming you can get troops trained properly with such powerful recoil response.
When the LAPD where facing two guy's with full body armor and full auto AK's what did they do with the Beretta ?
They continued, despite the recogntion of body armor, to take shots COM. One well placed head shot would have ended that episode long before it became national news. Just an observation.
With modern JHP's I don't think I'd like stand in front of 9mm Luger handgun in the hands of a well trained shooter.
Also consider that .45 ACP 230 grain ammunition dumps 390Ft/Lps of energy to the target within 25 meters, while more modern 9mm luger higher pressured rounds are dumping close 500Ft/Lps of kenetic energy in the same distance. I hate to see what two or three shots Corbon DPX or Ranger SXT 115 grain 9mm Lugers would to someones torso.
Is the .45 ACP really the answer, conidering it has no chance of penetrating light body armor ??
My vote would go to the 9x23 or a 10MM cartridge for that purpose, assuming you can get troops trained properly with such powerful recoil response.
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WillBrink
Guest
On their radios, they were telling each other to shoot for the legs due to the body armor in hopes that would take them down I recall. They did have shotguns, and it always made sense to me they should have a box of slugs at least they can use under such conditions until the tac team shows up. That would be a an easy, fast, cost effective way to turn the tide a bit in such a fight. A slug may or may not go through the armor, but you will know you have been hit, which will keep your head down... For example, Hornady's has a slug H2K that delivers 2,664 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy. Armor or no, that's gonna get your attention...
Even better, why not simply give them a good sabot round? The Hornady makes .45 caliber, 300 grain XTP-Mag sabot bullet flat to 200 yards. Now you have something with real "stopping power" for an emergency situation like that, and don't scare the public by possibly issuing those evil black rifles, which cost $$$, and training. I know, simple, easy, cheap answers to problems is not in the lexicon on big PD departments and mil...
You got that right, if it makes since, is cheap, and effective you won't find it in the mil or PDs.:)
skeeter
Unverified
As I understand it, the police changed to a round that is shaped like a hollow point ,but has a small spear inside to penetrate the body armor after the round cracks the plate in the armor.;)
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WillBrink
Guest
I had not heard that. As a shotgun rnd? Other? That's standard issue? Interesting. I had some clown on another forum say "I don't see the slugs keeping the BGs head down." To which I replied "then it will take their heads off instead." Under 100yards, slugs are no joke. Might be old school and old technology, but the laws of physics have no changed since I checked last time, unless we are getting into quantum mechanics...:)
skeeter
Unverified
I think that they are pistol rounds. You are right about the slugs inertia is a bitch!
MFFJM091
Verified SOF
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
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Are you referring to Hydra Shock rounds?
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WillBrink
Guest
If that's what he means, they must be some LEO only rnd, as Hydra Shocks contain nothing like that to act on armor.
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8'Duece
Guest
All in all the Beretta 92 (M9) straight out of the box new is a solid pistol. Just as solid and reliable as the Sig, Glock, and H&K. I would not hesitate to be issued one or purchase another if I where to become a Sheriff's deputy or with my local PD Dept.
I was dry firing mine last night with the Surefire Military series light on the rail and I still like the trigger just as much as my Sigs and a slight better than my H&K USP's.
It's balanced well, and the trigger is not nearly as bad for me as some other pistols. In fact it' even a bit better than the H&K USP trigger for it's easier to reach pull length than the H&K.
POS ? Hardly, but then again if your issued one in the military it's probably at or near it's service life. The military isn't good about keeping round counts and the conventional side of the forces seem to place it's importance on the far back burner of their weapons training doctrine. There's your problem in a nutshell.
I was dry firing mine last night with the Surefire Military series light on the rail and I still like the trigger just as much as my Sigs and a slight better than my H&K USP's.
It's balanced well, and the trigger is not nearly as bad for me as some other pistols. In fact it' even a bit better than the H&K USP trigger for it's easier to reach pull length than the H&K.
POS ? Hardly, but then again if your issued one in the military it's probably at or near it's service life. The military isn't good about keeping round counts and the conventional side of the forces seem to place it's importance on the far back burner of their weapons training doctrine. There's your problem in a nutshell.
pardus
Verified Military
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WillBrink
Guest
As far as I know, major PDs use the basic ammo, most common being Spear Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, Federal, etc. like the rest of us, so I have my doubts on that one....
pardus
Verified Military
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You and me both, I'd like to see something to back a statement like that, Skeeter if you would be so kind.
skeeter
Unverified
Alright, like I said...it was explained to me. I don't know the name of the round, and I haven't had any first hand experience. I was told that some major police units use these rounds. The person who explained it to me was a Ranger and is the gunsmith for my high school.:confused: I was told that it was just some police departments. I was also told that it is a LEO thing only, and is not offered to civilians.
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