best 7.62 NATO for civilian (home) purchase?

[arizonaguide]

Or, to just say it with one of my favorite quotes:

I require two things of my weapons: 1) Reliable as sunrise. This is first and foremost. Non-negotiable. 2) As accurate as possible without violating requirement #1. Must shoot Minute-Of-Hajji, day or night, rain or shine, world without end, amen. 3) The round has got to be able to do the job when it gets there. Is there anyone who retains any lasting doubts about 7.62x51mm in this regard?

Truth is, I have seen enough aluminum gim-cracks, plastic goo-gaws and carbon-fiber whizz-bangs for one life-time. Enough to know that the summbitches asking me to bet my life on it won't be anywhere to be found when it gets upgefucht. I'd rather carry a few extra pounds and have the ***** work when I need it, than go light with something that fails at random intervals.

Amen!:cool:

Plus being a card carrying Union Carpenter (local 408) I HAVE to agree with a guy that says this:

I guess it could have something to do with me carrying a 24 oz. framing hammer on my kit.

http://www.medfordtools.com/hammers/ds24.html
**** a bunch of tomahawks.

That's what I'm talkin' about!!!

PBeck, If you aren't from Alaska...Bro, you gotta have relatives there!

 

[arizonaguide]

Hmmmm, this also looks nice:
http://www.hk-usa.com/images/shared/HK417 Product Sheet.pdf
Probably out of my budget/purchasing authority though...
:cool:

 

[8'Duece]

This one is so nice.... held one the other day at a Gun Show...

Just not sure of a 16" barrel chambered in .308 :uhh:

Anyone elses thoughts on this matter ?

 

[pardus]

Just not sure of a 16" barrel chambered in .308 :uhh:

Anyone elses thoughts on this matter ?

Going to kick/jump like a mule, personally I think it's a bad idea. :2c:
Whats the point in having a round to shoot long distance then use it in a rifle that is designed for close work? :uhh:

If you want knock down, close up get a AK47.
If you want long range get an FN or M1A1.
If you want an easy handling rifle that can shoot 500m get an M series :2c:

 

[HOLLiS]

This is the one that I had, it had a recoil suppressor. I don't remember it being unpleasant to shoot. I thought it was very controllable. Also one can get a US Gov, detachable suppressor for the M1A1, but it requires the bayonet lug to use.

 

[pardus]

This is the one that I had, it had a recoil suppressor. I don't remember it being unpleasant to shoot. I thought it was very controllable. Also one can get a US Gov, detachable suppressor for the M1A1, but it requires the bayonet lug to use.

http://i89.photobu][/quote]

Interesting, thanks for that.

 

[arizonaguide]

It's kinda got to be a Bear stopper, for summer Alaska Photo stuff as well.
.308 is pretty much the Minimum for that. (although I admit 12ga is better...but 12ga not good out to 500+/-) I know I'm asking a LOT of one rifle. But, I think that would do it. (plus "sentimental" value):)

I do notice the SCAR (7.62) barrel is 19.7" though...that may be minimum to reach max volocity...but the FN/FAL is 16.25" (same as the Springfield).
I still like this one though:
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory05.php
or the above Hollisshooter!

We'll see how the chips($) are between now and Christmas/Inaugeration...may have to settle for a Mini-30.
(which is way LIGHT for Alaska stuff!)

 

[HOLLiS]

Interesting, thanks for that.

This is a different style of muzzle break.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=983220&chrSuperSKU=&MC=


The one that I got from them, fits over the flash suppressor and he locked in placed on the bayonet stud. It doesn't look like Numrich has it any more or I cann't find it.

 

[arizonaguide]

hmmm, another option...

Hmmmmm, this is another interesting option in 6.8!

http://ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5814&return=Y

 

[08steeda]

This is just my opinion - but the Ruger is not nearly as accurate or reliable. The tolerance and the proof from countless testing shooting gives a lot of creedence to the fact that it is a little loose.

Although there ia a company in Texas that will Accurize them for you for almost the same amount that you can get the Socom for, but you have to provide the rifle too!

Not even in the same ball-park as a M1A! IMHO

 

[arizonaguide]

Thanks 08! I had heard that.

But it may also boil down to how many chips($) I have lined up come Christmas/Innaugeration. I definately want to get something in the houshold before the rules change (I'm suspecting come January!):eek:

And if I only get $800 or so pulled together, then I may look at the Ruger in 7.62x39 or the 6.8. I know it kinda sucks...but the way the economy is going I may be lucky to have work at that time...(yet, that's one MORE reason to have a good carbine)...especially here in Arizona. They say when the economy declines, crime increases...and it makes sense. The construction industry has slowed so much here, that I'm working Hospital Security..(but, it turns out I love it!..protecting the Nurses on 3rd shift...seems a worthwile thing to do)!

But, I guess the next thing is to start searching the used M1A's. Just got back from Cabella's where I looked, but they had ONE, to the tune of $4K! (yes, $4000!!!)...and Garands were around $1000. AR's also around $1000+/- so may reconsider 5.56, or maybe an AK.
:uhh:

 

[HOLLiS]

The time to buy is always now, prices are always going up.

Also ammo is a consideration if you tend to be always short on money or shoot a heck of a lot of it.

firearm prices are slowly becoming national. At one time, local prices could vary quite a bit depending on A/O. Look at want ads, gun shows, and shops. Also you can place a "wanted to buy" ad in the paper. Hang around people who shoot, sometimes good deals pop up, net working helps.

Depending on you skill level you can assemble firearms. Depending where you start off on assemble process, such as AR are pretty easy, like legos. You buy the pieces and assemble it. Other require machining and maybe more. Basically almost unlimited choices here. Maybe too many choices for someone starting out.

 

[arizonaguide]

Good thoughts Hollis. Thanks!
:)
I still like the shorter BM59 Hollisshooter you posted above!

Just for my own confirmation, the SKS is a POS, correct? and I would be much better with a Mini-30 if I went the 7.62x39? (I'm sorta leaning away from the AR's and AK's due to possible Photo Expedition/Forest Ranger "political correctness"...Anything with a "magazine" will be bad enough, but I don't want to look like a National Forest "pot-grower" with an AR or AK over my shoulder!!! Hopefully the camera in my hands will help with that!!!)
:doh:
https://shadowspear.com/vb/album.php?albumid=244

 

[HOLLiS]

SKS tend to be a very good buy for the money. Once under $100 with a bunch of ammo. Last one I saw on sale at big 5 was almost $400. I have two, pre pre ban, Chinese with folding blade bayonet.

A big question is what are you going to use it for? Some firearms are purchased along with a box of ammo. 20 years later the firearm is sold, and there is still 1/2 box of ammo left. A very few are actually worn out after tens of thousands of rounds have been fired through it.

 

[arizonaguide]

my usage thoughts

Exactly!
My hopes are to find a rifle that will fit the bill for:

1. possible search-and-rescue work along Arizona border (possible flat shooting defense use probably at less<500+/-yds) and easy carry.

2. bear/mt lion/pot grower defense in forest during Photo expeditions Arizona/Alaska(7.62x39 kinda LIGHT for bears...okay for Mt Lion and Pot Grower defense)...perhaps 12ga better choice for this use, anyway.
https://shadowspear.com/vb/album.php?u=1446

3. suburban/urban use in a "Katrina type" (home/border invasion/breakdown) situation
https://shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15409
and general "longgun/carbine" requirements...

4. teach wife to shoot a rifle...she lived through Pol Pot's Cambodia, and has seen a literal breakdown in a government/society, and the related death of her parents/brother (killing fields).
She is 5 times stronger (character) than I, and is my life and my inspiration!!! (but I digress, AGAIN!):)
(anyway, refer to item #3 above)


A small .308 would be best, but unsure if chips($) aquired by January deadline! Maybe ($800)Ruger Mini-6.8 best compromise, and just take 12ga on Photo trips. I guess I could go with a ($600)lever-action 45-70! (wonder how the wife would like that!)

 

[7point62]

The M-14 is an old favorite of mine, but the FN and G-3 are fine weapons. There are some AR-15 derivatives out there in 6.8...but if you really want 7.62 Nato I'd go with the 14 or the FN.

For any large animal and for sheer stopping and dropping--I mean stone cold f*cking dead--within 150 yards--I recommend Remington 870 20 ga shotgun with a fully rifled barrel and deer sights...and 260 grain HP magnum sabot slugs. Good penetration and break-up. It will kill a bull, a bear, a moose, your neighbor, whatever.

 

[Cabbage Head]

There have been a whole bunch of good suggestions on the right rifle for you (and your wife).

Anything in an AR platform will give you a rifle that many are familiar with.

With an M1A in any varient, you also get a rifle that is dependable and proven to be a great rifle.

With the FAL/G3 (or clone) you also get a rifle that is proven worthy to defend your homestead and yourself abroad.

If you can find a place or person who will let you try before you buy, then you can find the one that is right for you both to fire. If you were in my area, I have a M1A and a G3 (clone) that you could use. Each are great!

Then lets take it to the next level, you next have to find the right 7.62 (.308) round to work for you. There are some great rounds that are made to be used inside the house (limited penetration) and outdoors. The traditional FMJBT (full metal jacket boat tale) round is good for accuracy buy not too good in the area of penetration (tends to go too far {overpenetration}).

Hornady has some great rounds out there. There is a 110gr that has a penetration of around 9in., a 155gr that is around 14in and 2 in 168gr each around 17 -18in in gelatin. They also have some barrier penetration rounds in 165gr.

There are many others out there. I am more familiar with Hornady.

With that and everything else, it all boils down to what you (and yours) feels comfortable with. In your wallet, ease of operation and marksmanship (markswomanship too).:2c:

 

[08steeda]

Once you get your money in hand then maybe hit the gun shows. With the economy the way it is you could probably find some real bargains out there in the used category! For 800.00 you should be able to get a really decent weapon that way!

 

[arizonaguide]

Thanks, folks..some really good ideas/suggestions.

Good thoughts on saving $$, 08!

Cabbage, I had heard good things about the hornady, and I guess there's even a Hornady TAP "home defense" round that is effective close, yet good preventing overpenetration..I will look more into that.

7point, you brought up a question I've had for a long time. Growing up in Alaska I never had to deer hunt with shotgun...so I've always been curious about the rifled slug barrels. Can you still shoot 00 buckshot/birdshot okay out of a rifled slug barrel? I have always wondered about that.

Thanks again everybody! Lot's of good help here.
:cool:

 

[7point62]

...7point, you brought up a question I've had for a long time. Growing up in Alaska I never had to deer hunt with shotgun...so I've always been curious about the rifled slug barrels. Can you still shoot 00 buckshot/birdshot okay out of a rifled slug barrel? I have always wondered about that...

Negative, because that buck/birdshot would tear up the rifling. But you can change back to your smoothbore on an 870 in about 30 sec. Not that I hunt deer with a shotgun. But these copper jacketed HP core-locked rifled sabot slugs are a world apart from old style deer slugs. You've essentially got an elephant gun at your disposal--providing the elephant is within 150 yards. I use them for boar. Most of my shots at boar are within 30 to 100 yards. Just as a kick recently, I tried 20 rounds at a manhole cover at 300 yards and got 2 hits without compensating for drop...but best penetration/velocity would be less than 150.