Devildoc
Verified Military
Generally what I thought, the last line I thought almost verbatim.....
Case Study: Tabs and Tyrants
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
Generally what I thought, the last line I thought almost verbatim.....
“Wait, did that guy just threaten me?” Faith wondered, startled.
Faith fought a sudden and barely-controlled urge to plant his giant MGMC ring squarely in the other man’s forehead. Four years ago, a situation like this would have terrified him. But that was four years ago. At Middle Georgia Military, it was a tradition to scratch a notch in the back of one’s ring for every fight the wearer was in, win or lose, while wearing the ring. Faith’s ring had three notches, and it looked like he was going to get another one. It had been a long time since he fought more than one person at once, but he normally didn’t worry about things like odds, or even consequences, when it came to issues of principle. His only regret right now was that he was about to scuff up his highly-polished jump boots. After a scuffle like this one was about to be, it would probably take him hours to get them back up to standard. Longer, if his eyes where black and swollen.
“Okay, game on,” Faith said. He held the folder containing his orders and inprocessing documentation out to the side and dropped it. It made a “smack” when it struck the concrete. Faith began to undo the buttons of his uniform top; it would be too restrictive once he starting swinging.
The eyes of the man who threatened him grew wide.
But, they weren’t focused on Faith. They were focused on someone behind him. Faith turned quickly, half-expecting an unseen assailant standing behind him. There was, in fact, someone standing behind him, but he did not appear the slightest bit threatening. The man was tall, with dark black skin and impossibly white teeth. Sweat glistened from his shaved head and soaked into his gray PT uniform. He held a small gym bag in his right hand, which he shifted to his left so he could render a sharp salute to Lieutenant Faith.
“Good evening sir,” he said. “Sergeant First Class Edward Ellery from Delta Company. I’ll take it from here.” He was in action before Faith could say another word.
“You,” he said, pointing at Private Pigpen. “Go back to your barracks room. And for God’s sake, take a shower.”
“You,” he said, pointing to the youngest-looking member of the group who was attacking Pigpen. “Get this cleaned up. Put the vehicle back in the motor pool and put this,” he added, tossing his gym bag to the man, “in my office. Don’t forget to make sure the back door is locked when you leave.”
“You three,” he said to the remaining individuals, “glad to see you’re in your PTs. Come with me. You’re about to have a very bad day.”
“Sergeant Ellery—“ one of the men began.
“Nope,” Ellery interrupted, “not another word. You heard me. Make it happen.”
As they began, slowly, to comply with his instructions, Ellery turned his attention back to Faith.
“New to the battalion, sir?” he inquired. Faith nodded. “Which company?”
“This one, actually,” Faith replied as he buttoned up his BDU top and picked back up his folder. It had gotten a little wet but the contents seemed salvageable.
“Oh, fantastic,” Ellery replied. “I didn’t know we were expecting any new platoon leaders. Great to have you on board,” he said with what appeared to be genuine enthusiasm as he shook Faith’s hand. “Sergeant First Class Ellery, 5th Platoon.”
“These yours?” Faith asked, indicating the other men.
“No sir. Well, I mean they’re mine for the next…” he checked his watch “hour or so. And they’re fellow Delta Dogs, but no they’re not my Soldiers.”
Faith nodded.
“Well sir, glad to have you on board. I’m going to do some retraining real quick and then call it a weekend. See you here for PT at 0600 on Monday?” he inquired. It had been a long day already, but Faith wondered if he should stick around.
(end)
Discussion Questions
1) What should Faith do now? Should he put this in Sergeant Ellery’s hands, or stick around and see what happens?
2) How should he prep for Monday, and should he bring this up to the First Sergeant or Company Commander when he in-processes Delta Company?
Faith fought a sudden and barely-controlled urge to plant his giant MGMC ring squarely in the other man’s forehead. Four years ago, a situation like this would have terrified him. But that was four years ago. At Middle Georgia Military, it was a tradition to scratch a notch in the back of one’s ring for every fight the wearer was in, win or lose, while wearing the ring. Faith’s ring had three notches, and it looked like he was going to get another one. It had been a long time since he fought more than one person at once, but he normally didn’t worry about things like odds, or even consequences, when it came to issues of principle. His only regret right now was that he was about to scuff up his highly-polished jump boots. After a scuffle like this one was about to be, it would probably take him hours to get them back up to standard. Longer, if his eyes where black and swollen.
“Okay, game on,” Faith said. He held the folder containing his orders and inprocessing documentation out to the side and dropped it. It made a “smack” when it struck the concrete. Faith began to undo the buttons of his uniform top; it would be too restrictive once he starting swinging.
The eyes of the man who threatened him grew wide.
But, they weren’t focused on Faith. They were focused on someone behind him. Faith turned quickly, half-expecting an unseen assailant standing behind him. There was, in fact, someone standing behind him, but he did not appear the slightest bit threatening. The man was tall, with dark black skin and impossibly white teeth. Sweat glistened from his shaved head and soaked into his gray PT uniform. He held a small gym bag in his right hand, which he shifted to his left so he could render a sharp salute to Lieutenant Faith.
“Good evening sir,” he said. “Sergeant First Class Edward Ellery from Delta Company. I’ll take it from here.” He was in action before Faith could say another word.
“You,” he said, pointing at Private Pigpen. “Go back to your barracks room. And for God’s sake, take a shower.”
“You,” he said, pointing to the youngest-looking member of the group who was attacking Pigpen. “Get this cleaned up. Put the vehicle back in the motor pool and put this,” he added, tossing his gym bag to the man, “in my office. Don’t forget to make sure the back door is locked when you leave.”
“You three,” he said to the remaining individuals, “glad to see you’re in your PTs. Come with me. You’re about to have a very bad day.”
“Sergeant Ellery—“ one of the men began.
“Nope,” Ellery interrupted, “not another word. You heard me. Make it happen.”
As they began, slowly, to comply with his instructions, Ellery turned his attention back to Faith.
“New to the battalion, sir?” he inquired. Faith nodded. “Which company?”
“This one, actually,” Faith replied as he buttoned up his BDU top and picked back up his folder. It had gotten a little wet but the contents seemed salvageable.
“Oh, fantastic,” Ellery replied. “I didn’t know we were expecting any new platoon leaders. Great to have you on board,” he said with what appeared to be genuine enthusiasm as he shook Faith’s hand. “Sergeant First Class Ellery, 5th Platoon.”
“These yours?” Faith asked, indicating the other men.
“No sir. Well, I mean they’re mine for the next…” he checked his watch “hour or so. And they’re fellow Delta Dogs, but no they’re not my Soldiers.”
Faith nodded.
“Well sir, glad to have you on board. I’m going to do some retraining real quick and then call it a weekend. See you here for PT at 0600 on Monday?” he inquired. It had been a long day already, but Faith wondered if he should stick around.
(end)
Discussion Questions
1) What should Faith do now? Should he put this in Sergeant Ellery’s hands, or stick around and see what happens?
2) How should he prep for Monday, and should he bring this up to the First Sergeant or Company Commander when he in-processes Delta Company?
NCO business, he needs to leave.
Have an informal chat with the 1st Sgt, but keep it in NCO channels as long as possible.
Have an informal chat with the 1st Sgt, but keep it in NCO channels as long as possible.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
I don’t always, but he is right here. Faith erred with his ‘knock it off and I’ll help you clean up’ initial approach.
This one is a tough twist. I would still go through the same process mentioned earlier - but I would expect the LT to move out and follow-up with SFC Ellery later.
I think this is where you get into the 'what do you expect of a 2LT vs what do you expect of a more seasoned officer.' I would expect any field grade officer, or senior CPT (company commander or beyond), to be entirely unsatisfied with SFC Ellery's intervention as the relative end of things. Because, once you've gone past a certain point there must be more significant consequences - and the danger of poison in the NCO or WO chains as I mentioned before. However, I would expect junior company grade officers - especially 2LTs - to almost always follow the lead of senior NCOs. One of the critical functions of field grade NCOs (E7 and above in the Army) is officer development. If you expect it you have to give them some room to do it.
I think this is where you get into the 'what do you expect of a 2LT vs what do you expect of a more seasoned officer.' I would expect any field grade officer, or senior CPT (company commander or beyond), to be entirely unsatisfied with SFC Ellery's intervention as the relative end of things. Because, once you've gone past a certain point there must be more significant consequences - and the danger of poison in the NCO or WO chains as I mentioned before. However, I would expect junior company grade officers - especially 2LTs - to almost always follow the lead of senior NCOs. One of the critical functions of field grade NCOs (E7 and above in the Army) is officer development. If you expect it you have to give them some room to do it.
As managers were trained and constantly told to be open when it comes to inter personal issues, however it's generally accepted that unless the issue at hand is something extremely out of order or grievous that it's best to handle it in house.
He should leave it since it appears to be handled at the moment, however he should remember this moment and earmark it for future reference in case other events such as this occurs and if they do, then that would be time to notify the CoC because clearly the current process isn't working. Also I would suggest Faith to have an informal discussion with the SFC to get the rundown on the unit and the ins and outs of the various personal in it. Right now he has time to get a game plan formed in his head before he goes in blind.
He should leave it since it appears to be handled at the moment, however he should remember this moment and earmark it for future reference in case other events such as this occurs and if they do, then that would be time to notify the CoC because clearly the current process isn't working. Also I would suggest Faith to have an informal discussion with the SFC to get the rundown on the unit and the ins and outs of the various personal in it. Right now he has time to get a game plan formed in his head before he goes in blind.
The other thing that occurs to me is that the scrubbing was "NCO bidness" before so what's to say this isn't a similar bidness and the attitude is stemming from the senior NCOs?
Move out, wait about 10 minutes and "happen" to stroll by a fair distance from the corrective training to see it happening without being obvious. You don't know yet whether that E7 is actually backing you or running interference. Trust but verify... This is a new unit and you need intel on what's going on. Spend the 10 minutes making notes about the incident to discuss with the CO/1SG.
Offering to sweep it under the rug was a major mistake, this is an incident that has bodily injury all over it. I served during the period when this was how squads would deal with people that didn't take personal hygiene seriously and I can tell you that many of the victims had scars afterwards. Those brushes take the skin off. Direct and forceful, the only way to deal with that.
Offering to sweep it under the rug was a major mistake, this is an incident that has bodily injury all over it. I served during the period when this was how squads would deal with people that didn't take personal hygiene seriously and I can tell you that many of the victims had scars afterwards. Those brushes take the skin off. Direct and forceful, the only way to deal with that.
1. Not so fast there SFC, I have observed a soldier being hazed/assaulted and I have been threatened by these soldiers. I will standby and observe the corrective training and we will discuss any further actions.
Then back off and let SFC Ellery do his thing. Make sure they have proper corrective training. I would also require names/ranks/SS#'s on all involved, and make it known you expect written counselling on all. The keeping it NCO business is up to Pvt Stinky, as he was the one who was affected.
You don't want to bring the house down with battalion or the MP's without even talking to the company Cdr. Especially being the new butter bar, but you also need to establish your authority as an officer in this matter, NCO's don't tell officers what to do. That doesn't mean you can't let him handle business, just means you give the orders.
2. Get the commanders phone number and call him follow his guidence. If he says see you Monday, show up in PT's for morning PT. Have your BDU's ready to change into, and your orders and documents ready for the clerk to process.
Then back off and let SFC Ellery do his thing. Make sure they have proper corrective training. I would also require names/ranks/SS#'s on all involved, and make it known you expect written counselling on all. The keeping it NCO business is up to Pvt Stinky, as he was the one who was affected.
You don't want to bring the house down with battalion or the MP's without even talking to the company Cdr. Especially being the new butter bar, but you also need to establish your authority as an officer in this matter, NCO's don't tell officers what to do. That doesn't mean you can't let him handle business, just means you give the orders.
2. Get the commanders phone number and call him follow his guidence. If he says see you Monday, show up in PT's for morning PT. Have your BDU's ready to change into, and your orders and documents ready for the clerk to process.
Really good responses so far. I hope the younger military members of the board are learning from the experience of the people who are commenting on this thread.
As a young infantry lieutenant 20+ years ago, I walked up on a scene very much like the one described in this fictional case study. The individuals involved were all in a different platoon. Private Pigpen (I have no idea what his real name was) was the company problem child. He literally never bathed. He was a screwup in just about every way and I don't think it was an exaggeration to say that he was deeply disliked by everyone in the company, including me.
I was at work after hours one night, I don't remember why I might have had staff duty or something. I found a couple of junior NCOs and soldiers giving Pigpen a bath behind the company area, as described in this story. I had been in the unit a while, at least six months or so, I knew everyone involved and they all knew me. I told them to knock it off; they grumbled about it but complied. No one threatened me, that was pure embellishment for dramatic purposes.
Sergeant First Class Ellery (not his real name) was my first platoon sergeant. I'll leave it up to you to decide at the end of this case study whether he's a good one or a bad one. @Il Duce already knows the answer in real life.
I may have mentioned the "scrubbing" incident to their platoon sergeant and mine the next day, but I didn't push it any further than that.
Regardless of his status as a first class fuckup, Pigpen was still a Soldier and more importantly, was a human being. I should have done more. And if you find yourself in a similar situation, in or out of the military, you should too.
As a young infantry lieutenant 20+ years ago, I walked up on a scene very much like the one described in this fictional case study. The individuals involved were all in a different platoon. Private Pigpen (I have no idea what his real name was) was the company problem child. He literally never bathed. He was a screwup in just about every way and I don't think it was an exaggeration to say that he was deeply disliked by everyone in the company, including me.
I was at work after hours one night, I don't remember why I might have had staff duty or something. I found a couple of junior NCOs and soldiers giving Pigpen a bath behind the company area, as described in this story. I had been in the unit a while, at least six months or so, I knew everyone involved and they all knew me. I told them to knock it off; they grumbled about it but complied. No one threatened me, that was pure embellishment for dramatic purposes.
Sergeant First Class Ellery (not his real name) was my first platoon sergeant. I'll leave it up to you to decide at the end of this case study whether he's a good one or a bad one. @Il Duce already knows the answer in real life.
I may have mentioned the "scrubbing" incident to their platoon sergeant and mine the next day, but I didn't push it any further than that.
Regardless of his status as a first class fuckup, Pigpen was still a Soldier and more importantly, was a human being. I should have done more. And if you find yourself in a similar situation, in or out of the military, you should too.
@Marauder06 You swayed my opinion on the matter, I think the reason I answered the way I did was because I've never had to deal with an instance such as that or even resembling physical harassment on that scale. However I know if I saw that in real life I would put a stop to it immediately, and go much further than what I answered and what Faith did in this scenario. I'm looking forward to more if these.
It was a totally different Army 20 years ago. A lot of things that were tolerated, if not explicitly condoned, have rightfully been drummed out as a norm in our military. Lots of things I saw, said, and did many years ago, I wouldn't even consider today.
There's another spin on this that I witnessed back when I was a young private in the late 80's that still hadn't unlearned basic training. Four NCO's, 1 E-5, 2 E-6s, and an E-7 were smoking an E-4. The E-4 was the company fuckup and deserved a smoking. What he didn't deserve was to have it happening on a 100+ degree (heat cat 5) day in the hottest part of the afternoon on black asphalt. He ended up with third degree burns on his hands toes and knees (from pushups) as well as burns on his back(from flutter kicks). Quite a few people walked by, but no one, officer or enlisted, said anything. Today I'd probably have stepped in, E-1 or not. Back then there was no chance.
What does that new private do now? He runs the risk of being right there next to the E-4 if he says something. It's one thing to be an officer in that situation, but what about a lower enlisted that is outranked by everyone else involved? Now I understand that safety issues like that can be called out by anyone, but coming right out of basic it's an ethical dilemma.
What does that new private do now? He runs the risk of being right there next to the E-4 if he says something. It's one thing to be an officer in that situation, but what about a lower enlisted that is outranked by everyone else involved? Now I understand that safety issues like that can be called out by anyone, but coming right out of basic it's an ethical dilemma.
Although I've been around the block a time or two, I'm learning a lot from this case study. Most Air Force officers don't (or didn't when I was on AD) get to command anything until O-4, so I feel very behind the power curve now that I'm trying to learn the Army way.
I saw an PFC get smoked by a CPT. He was the LRSD commander, and the PFC was new, he failed the EIB road March due to a knee injury from Airborne school, flutter kicks, Mountian climbers, pushups, etc.
I always thought that was fucked up, and one of the reason I turned said CPT down when he asked me if I was interested in trying out. In retrospect, I should have tried out as it would have been a good unit to start off in, but hindsight and all that.
That dude sounds like a real dick.
Individual and crew level collective training (and retraining) is mostly an NCO responsibility. I don't recall ever smoking my troops except when it was something good-natured.
Joe got smoked plenty when he deserved it, but not by me. My experience has been that verbal spot corrections generally work just fine for officer corrections..
My wife has a permanent profile because of a dickhead officer like this CPT.
10 mile road march the day after her knee surgery profile expired.
Permanently breaking Soldiers seems to be a point of pride with 1st Sgts and Cdrs.
I blame the doc for that one more than the CPT (but the CPT certainly has a portion of blame). The profile should have either included sufficient rehab time or a new light duty one should have been issued as needed.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Today you have a recover period after injuries and I think the maximum is 90 days. When I was an PL our PA had this rep of building out packets fot malingering Soldiers. I'd suffered an injury in a previous unit and needed a slip for physical therapy about six months in, we talked, it was done. What he didn't deal with was mechanically sound Soldiers who just wanted a free ride. If you were injured he took care of you and he was one of the best PAs I've met.
With the Master Fitness Trainer course back units are getting wise.
With the Master Fitness Trainer course back units are getting wise.
