Coasties Begin BUD/S

[JimMCpog]

A larger pool of applicants? Plus if the Coast Guard is already screening the applicants, mostly from Taclet and Deployable Operations Group, then they are probably getting candidates with a higher chance of success.*
Coast Guard gets to integrate even closer with Navy and Marine Corps after that Sea Service strategy memorandum from 2005-2006 and it may even be a recruiting draw for type A folks! Not that the Coast Guard is hurting for numbers, but all the services are snapping after the same small pool of men, so even 1 more candidate is probably worth it.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I can’t see how Coast Guardsman serving 7 years on a team after becoming a fully trained SEAL is a benefit to the USCG. I could see them going through the training and serving 3 to 4 years and then returning as SME’s to the USCG, but 7 fucking years? You figure roughly 6 months of USCG training, a year or two in the USCG before you are eligible for the new “SEAL exchange program” 2 more years in training and then 7 years on a team… That is around 10 years before the USCG gets any return on their end of the deal… Not only that, but who in the fuck would want to leave a SEAL team to go back to the USCG?

I see dudes serving their time and then if and when the USCG tries to pull them back, these SEAL trained coast guardsman will get out and reenlist in the Navy.

If they could get them back after 3 to 4 years and have an exchange program where SEAL’s spend time on a USCG team (MSSRT or whatever it is) and that way they get SME’s now and they also have guys going through the whole process so that eventually they will retain their own SME’s.

As for the “why does the USCG need a SEAL capability” It was my understanding that the USCG is to form a maritime counter terrorism unit, that would act as not only a military capability CONUS/OCONUS, but also as a CT unit for law enforcement under the DHS umbrella.

It would make sense to have a SEAL capability with that mission, I am just wondering if they will be getting involved with DEVGROUP or if they will only be involved with regular SEAL teams…

 

[DA SWO]

I think the folks in charge may have a good reason for this. I am thinking the CG members could be designated as an LEDET for an op, and assist in a take down without having the defense lawyers scream Posse Comitas violation.

Either way, we have two additionl SEALs, can't beat that.

 

[MSRTJoe]

I was an original member of the MSRT. We got our training from retired SEALs at Blackwater and CACI, which consited mostly of CQB and ship-boarding techniques similar to Phase III training. Ever since we started the program in 2004, we were trying to get into BUD/S. The idea was to get the MSRT into SOCOM so that we could be another asset to that command and get the opportunity to play. The benefit of the Coast Guard being a part of it is avoiding the Posse Commitaus issue. I think this is all part of the proccess of playing nice and winning acceptance into the community. The MSRT and the DOG is still fighting for respect amongst old-school command. But Commandant Allen loves it!

 

[JBS]

It's great to have more highly trained men, no matter what branch they are in. I'm all for a competent and highly capable Coast Guard, but we need to stop trying to avoid or bypass the inconvenience caused by the pesky little "Posse Comitatus issue".

 

[Tac2D]

I don't understand why some people still have their panties in a wad over this issue still. The CG is not the CG of old, and needs a highly trained and capable CT/HRT unit to fill in the gaps where the FBI or SEALS can't. Contrary to popular belief, the SEALS cannot be used for any and every mission on the water. The CG is stepping up it's game and doing what it needs to do to bring itself up to speed with the rest of the services. And yes, Posse Comitatus is pesky but it's there for a reason, so we do what we can to work around it. It's a great program for both services. Oh, and FYI one of the Coastie's set the new record for the 14-mile run...just thought I would throw that in there.

 

[0699]

I don't understand why some people still have their panties in a wad over this issue still. The CG is not the CG of old, and needs a highly trained and capable CT/HRT unit to fill in the gaps where the FBI or SEALS can't. Contrary to popular belief, the SEALS cannot be used for any and every mission on the water. The CG is stepping up it's game and doing what it needs to do to bring itself up to speed with the rest of the services. And yes, Posse Comitatus is pesky but it's there for a reason, so we do what we can to work around it. It's a great program for both services. Oh, and FYI one of the Coastie's set the new record for the 14-mile run...just thought I would throw that in there.

Examples? I can't think of any...

And I don't know that I'd call Posse Comitatus "pesky". IMO it's the law of the land for a reason; I for one don't want to see DOD enforcing civilian laws.

 

[Diesel_Actual]

It doesn't make any sense for this (CG SEALs) unless the USCG creates a special unit, Who's gonna join the Coast Guard to be a SEAL, I can understand wanting to pull guys from the current USCG Rescue Swimmer community for NSW, but if a guy wants to be a SEAL, why go through the CG first?? It would be really appealing if they establish a USCG SEAL state-side team, that didn't deploy overseas.

 

[Centermass]

It doesn't make any sense for this (CG SEALs) unless the USCG creates a special unit, Who's gonna join the Coast Guard to be a SEAL, I can understand wanting to pull guys from the current USCG Rescue Swimmer community for NSW, but if a guy wants to be a SEAL, why go through the CG first?? It would be really appealing if they establish a USCG SEAL state-side team, that didn't deploy overseas.

SOWT explained it here:

I think the folks in charge may have a good reason for this. I am thinking the CG members could be designated as an LEDET for an op, and assist in a take down without having the defense lawyers scream Posse Comitatus (sp) violation.

 

[car]

Forgive me for my ingnorance,but being that I'm way on the outside looking in I have to ask.

Whats the reason for either service doing this?

I guess what I'm asking is what exactly do they plan to get out of coast guard people being trained for special operations.

In the late 80's - early 90's we sent a lot of guys from the 82nd (and other units) to Ranger school. There was no intention of sending them on to the Regiment, but to bring them back to their conventional units and teach the skills that they learned at Ranger school.

I'll never forget walking into the 82nd's MI battalion for the first time and being amazed at how many Ranger tabs I saw - on the shoulders of MI guys! Even after they stopped letting non-combat arms guys go to Ranger school, some of the Infantry Bn commanders down the street gave up slots to our guys because they knew what our guys brought to the table, and how the skills learned at Ranger school enhanced their ability to support them. I heard one Brigade commander tell my Battalion commander, "Hell, Vic, with what your folks bring to the fight, we can make them grunts for a few weeks....."

Maybe that's part of the thinking behind sending Guardians to BUDS

 

[Diesel_Actual]

:uhhosse Comitatus Act is very easily bypassed by the Insurrection Act.
If you guys recall, during G.W.'s second term, he basically did away with Posse Comitatus all together and rewrote the Insurrection Act of 1807 which was snuck into law in the 2007 Defense Appropriations Bill, the changes were repelled in 2008, but the Insurrection Act still reads,
§ 333. Interference with State and Federal law

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
:doh:

Also it should be noted that any group affiliated with JSOC is exempt from Posse Comitatus, and can essentially operate outside any legal constraints or consequences

 

[Dame]

Examples? I can't think of any...

Drug runners.

 

[0699]

Drug runners.

On the high seas? Why the hell would you try to board drug runners that won't surrender peacefully? Why risk the lives of your own men?

Blow them out of the water with heavy gunfire...

Next.

 

[Dame]

Blow them out of the water with heavy gunfire...

Next.

Sounds like more fun your way. But I think the DOGs and MSSTs have to try capturing the drug runners/pirates/terrorists first.

 

[0699]

Sounds like more fun your way. But I think the DOGs and MSSTs have to try capturing the drug runners/pirates/terrorists first.

Nope. Not true. Refuse to follow orders, you can be blown out of the water.

Don't confuse "allowed" with "desire". There is a big push to develop a CT capability that may or may not be needed. Beyond PC, why on earth would you put guys over the rail on a known threat instead of just blowing them out of the water? I'll give you a hint... CT is sexy and pays big bucks.

Unless it's an IHR (and hell, EVERYONE can do IHR...) it will be HRT or a a certain Navy unit that does the hard-core CT at-sea takedown. Believing anything else is just misguided.

 

[Dame]

Nope. Not true. Refuse to follow orders, you can be blown out of the water.

Don't confuse "allowed" with "desire". There is a big push to develop a CT capability that may or may not be needed. Beyond PC, why on earth would you put guys over the rail on a known threat instead of just blowing them out of the water? I'll give you a hint... CT is sexy and pays big bucks.

Unless it's an IHR (and hell, EVERYONE can do IHR...) it will be HRT or a a certain Navy unit that does the hard-core CT at-sea takedown. Believing anything else is just misguided.

I have learned to never believe anything that wasn't verified here first. Preferably by 0699.