Covid-19

Dvr55119 said:
@Dame i don’t mean to presume anything about you personally. I don’t know you, nor you me. I am speaking in generalizations. If that isn’t clear that is poor communication via an impersonal method on my part.
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Which is exactly my point.

Everyone has an opinion on what John Q Public "should" be doing to keep everyone else "safe." Please, I beg you (and everyone) to remember that you have no idea what someone else is going through or has been through during this time. You have no idea if the "positive" result was even the result of an actual test. This is the Super Bowl of the germ infestation game and the CDC and WHO did not even suit up when it arrived. The medical professionals who deal with this have enough on their hands without trying to figure out legalities. So local governments have decided to flex their muscles and overstep their bounds. Well, I will have none of it.

From your posted article: "In addition, the federal government may assist with or take over the management of an intrastate incident if requested by a state or if the federal government determines local efforts are inadequate.[iii] Federal government leadership response roles are shared between the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Once a federal declaration of emergency has been issued, state law will be preempted to the extent that they conflict with federal law."

I believe AG Barr is more of a Constitutional scholar than either of us. That lady in TN has no symptoms. She took responsibly for the mere possibility that she might have infected her older relatives. And as thanks for that her family is now under house arrest. I hope she and her family kick the everlovin' shit out of the local gorillas and I hope Barr has a hand in it.
 
My neighbor woke up a couple weeks ago with supposedly a tremendous amount of pain in his big toe; so much so that he called his doctor (insert all kinds of smart ass comments here...I did). The doc tells him to come in immediately and get checked for "Covid Toe". I'm like, you gotta be shitting me, right? Nope, a real thing, evidently.

So, he goes in and they administer a test. Tell him results should be back in about 48 hours. Well a couple days go by and he hears nothing. In the meantime, his toe pain has completely gone away (gone the following morning, I guess) but his wife, a veterinarian, now has to stay home because her husband was tested and they can't risk spreading the virus until he's confirmed negative. So, he calls the doc. They tell him, well there's a back up at the lab and we won't have results for at least another EIGHT days!

Well, now he's like, that's 10 total days, minimum. At that point, chances are, if he had the virus, it's already manifested itself and he's either mild or in the hospital, but now he has no pain or systems and is wondering why he even got tested? He'd been self quarantining from his family since first making the doctor appointment. If he hadn't tested, his wife could've continued working. On day, 12 they got back to him with test results: negative.

This whole thing is pretty crazy.
 
CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing

This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:

In six months since the virus emerged, the CDC said “there have been no confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection.”
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Would that indicate immunity after recovering from your first infection? Or is it just sheer luck that they never caught it again?
 
Kaldak said:
CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing

This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:



Would that indicate immunity after recovering from your first infection? Or is it just sheer luck that they never caught it again?
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I don't know, but if you recall, MERS and SARS basically just went away. All vaccines that were developed and tested never gained approval from the FDA.
 
Kaldak said:
CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing

This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:



Would that indicate immunity after recovering from your first infection? Or is it just sheer luck that they never caught it again?
Click to expand...

That is a great question and I do not know. I do know that a lot of research is showing that antibodies have decreased over time, and a lot of people who had high levels of antibodies either have none or they are just very low. So based on that, I don't know that they're getting immunity.
 
Devildoc said:
That is a great question and I do not know. I do know that a lot of research is showing that antibodies have decreased over time, and a lot of people who had high levels of antibodies either have none or they are just very low. So based on that, I don't know that they're getting immunity.
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Well, it's important to note that exposure does not equate to infection. There are many people out there now (considering the number of confirmed tests) that have easily been exposed and are at a minimum asymptomatic if not uninfected at all.
 
ThunderHorse said:
Well, it's important to note that exposure does not equate to infection. There are many people out there now (considering the number of confirmed tests) that have easily been exposed and are at a minimum asymptomatic if not uninfected at all.
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It is definitely along a continuum, everything from no symptoms, to traditional symptoms, to non-traditional symptoms (i.e., "big toe" aforementioned), to critical care. A piece of research I read followed a cohort of COVID-positive, symptomatic people with a range of clinical presentations, following their antibodies at specific intervals after testing positive. Almost in every case, antibodies decreased; in some cases, there weren't antibodies.

I would be curious to see the same thing in people who test positive but were/are asymptomatic.

There are articles 2 months old (COVID-19 Reinfection: Myth or Truth?) suggesting that reinfection is not occurring; however, we may be seeing people with a different strain as it evolves (a la, the flu).

Also from CDC: "There are no data concerning the possibility of re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 after recovery from COVID-19. While viral RNA shedding declines with resolution of symptoms, it may continue for days to weeks.34,38,45 However, the detection of RNA during convalescence does not necessarily indicate the presence of viable infectious virus. Clinical infection has been correlated with the detection of IgM and IgG antibodies.46-49 However, definitive data are lacking, and it remains uncertain whether individuals with antibodies are protected against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2, and if so, what concentration of antibodies is needed to confer protection."

So my questions (I have so many...) 1) what methods are used to determine test results? (i.e., uniformity/consistency) 2) do all testing methods have the same level of reliability? 3) how sensitive are the tests, and do all tests have the same sensitivity? (in that, if I got one particle out of a million, is that going to read positive, whereas your test, you would be negative?).

Every day my skepticism meter goes higher. It's not that I don't trust; it's that, and also that new data is emerging all the time, changing what we know.
 
Kaldak said:
CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing

This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:



Would that indicate immunity after recovering from your first infection? Or is it just sheer luck that they never caught it again?
Click to expand...
According to that article, it seems more to indicate that there were too many uncontrollable factors influencing the cases of supposed COVID-19 relapses they studied for them to confirm any of them as indisputable reinfections.
Devildoc said:
That is a great question and I do not know. I do know that a lot of research is showing that antibodies have decreased over time, and a lot of people who had high levels of antibodies either have none or they are just very low. So based on that, I don't know that they're getting immunity.
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Dr. "Doom & Gloom" himself confirmed recently that COVID-19 antibodies do in fact confer immunity, but that it is still unclear as to how long it lasts and what factors affect the length of that immunity from person to person.
ThunderHorse said:
Well, it's important to note that exposure does not equate to infection. There are many people out there now (considering the number of confirmed tests) that have easily been exposed and are at a minimum asymptomatic if not uninfected at all.
Click to expand...
I believe @Devildoc was referring specifically to people who were infected, confirmed to have antibodies, and then shown to have reduced numbers of antibodies over time.
 
Locksteady said:
I believe @Devildoc was referring specifically to people who were infected, confirmed to have antibodies, and then shown to have reduced numbers of antibodies over time.
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Yes I understand. It was more of a general comment that just because you may be exposed again, doesn't mean that you will become infected. Whether you have previously been infected or previously had no exposure.
 
Devildoc said:
Every day my skepticism meter goes higher. It's not that I don't trust; it's that, and also that new data is emerging all the time, changing what we know.
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Not that anyone here has stated the numbers are bullshit...

You're in the thick of it and seeing some of the worst possible. I will not under any circumstances discount your experience. I also will not trust the offical numbers even if they fit with your experience, because as you know the world is a much larger sample size.

I won't say we've been lied to (though I have my suspicions), but as a layman I think the data is too incomplete to make the decisions we have made.

I hope to live long enough to know which side was right.
 
To piggyback off of what @Florida173 said, my brother in law and his fiance just drove up from the Tampa area to visit this past week and reported similar things happening (people never being tested and reports coming back positive) to people he and his fiance knew. On top of that, false-positives are also a real thing.

"Connecticut’s State Public Health Laboratory has uncovered a flaw in one of the testing systems it uses to test for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The flaw, which has been reported to both the manufacturer and the federal Food and Drug Administration, led to 90 of 144 people tested during June 15–July 17, 2020 receiving a false positive COVID test report." *Bolded for emphasis* -source

Fear is an incredibly powerful motivator and can drive otherwise rational people to extreme ends. Mild example: toilet paper. Extreme example: burning "witches" in New England.
 
Steve1839 said:
I don't know if this means the virus only comes out after 10PM or if you can't get plastered by 10, you ain't trying...the demographic this edict is targeted to is the demographic that elected him...

Last call for alcohol in Colorado will be 10 p.m., Gov. Jared Polis orders in latest salvo against COVID-19
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Yea, its unfortunately those in their college years/20s that brought this about.

Clubs/bars in downtown Colorado Springs were basically unable to enforce any sort of policies or separation after 2230-2300ish (from what I saw).

More than a few times a saw some frat bros/boots from Carson try to fight with security for being told to distance.
 

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