Covid-19

[Devildoc]

See, he's fine:

 

[Locksteady]

The only thing 'bloody' irresponsible about this event is putting several members of your own protective unit, their families, and anyone with whom they all come in contact in further jeopardy to perform a reckless political stunt that could have been achieved without imposing -any- of these additional risks to the public from the comfort of your own multi-room hospital-provided presidential suite.

And you know this....how? because you are a medical provider? You are on the down-low of his medical team's advice? This is an assumption made based on your politics and worldview.

I know this because the foremost national medical authority on COVID-19 - the CDC - has indicated that you should isolate yourself and avoid contact with others -including housemates - for at least 10 days following a positive diagnosis (which POTUS received 4 days prior to this event) and quarantine yourself if you've been in close contact with a person infected with COVID-19.

He was not released following his stunt; he was returned directly back to isolation in his suite, where he still resides due to his infectious status.

This is why I did not comment much on whether he should have/should not have. We do not know what his docs said. If masks work, especially N95s (which pics show the USSS personnel were wearing), then there should not have been a problem, right?

No, because they are not a replacement for isolation in infected patients, and they are not foolproof.

The CDC currently lists no exceptions for releasing patients from isolation when it is medically unnecessary.

 

[Devildoc]

@Locksteady , we've had staff go from exposure to mild symptoms to quarantine to work in as few as five days. Granted, we're going on our institution's protocols and not CDC (I admit, I did chuckle at the "foremost national medical authority" thing....for some COVID guidelines they are a solid six weeks behind many institutions). If I had to quarantine after every time I have been exposed to someone with COVID now I would not have left my house since...June? But, to be clear, you don't have inside access to his medical team's protocols (question guised as a statement). Neither do I.

N95s are not for me to protect you, they are for me so you don't get me sick. Not foolproof, at all, but given a pathogen risk-safety matrix, almost as safe as you can get.

I dunno, man... maybe, just maybe, he'll be OK, and so will those around him. In spite of the 99% survival rate.

To be clear, I am neither defending nor attacking him for doing this. I don't know that it's going to make much difference to anything (regarding getting anyone sick or from a political point of view). But I do think it's great fodder, ammunition, for people who don't like him. Clearly, look at the past several posts.

Regarding Dr. Phillips, he has some solid creds in the EM and disaster med community, but some of his peers thinks that his partisanship is over the top and clouds his professionalism (not kissing and telling, but one of his colleagues used to be one of my colleagues where I work and we keep in touch).

 

[Blizzard]

So, Devil's Advocate...

What if the President does release in the next day or so and has no additional symptoms; fully recovered...

Doesn't this stand as a pretty solid counter argument to what many are presenting? Doesn't it seemingly confirm that this is a mild virus for most, even some at high risk? Doesn't it stand in contrast to the actions some states are taking?

To me, it potentially stands as strong argument against critics.

 

[Locksteady]

@Locksteady , we've had staff go from exposure to mild symptoms to quarantine to work in as few as five days. Granted, we're going on our institution's protocols and not CDC (I admit, I did chuckle at the "foremost national medical authority" thing....for some COVID guidelines they are a solid six weeks behind many institutions).

The beauty of the national-level bureaucracy.

If I had to quarantine after every time I have been exposed to someone with COVID now I would not have left my house since...June?

Voluntarily violating medical recommendations for an unnecessary political stunt is not at all comparable to doing the same in the course of providing necessary medical care to the public as an essential healthcare provider.

But, to be clear, you don't have inside access to his medical team's protocols (question guised as a statement). Neither do I.

Which I don't need to know that both you and the President are skirting official CDC guidelines for reducing the spread as much as possible - albeit with dramatically different justifications.

I dunno, man... maybe, just maybe, he'll be OK, and so will those around him. In spite of the 99% survival rate.

He ignored clear isolation guidelines and deliberately put other people's lives in danger just to advance his political self-interests.

This is unacceptable for anyone to do - much less the person who should be setting the example for the nation.

To be clear, I am neither defending nor attacking him for doing this. I don't know that it's going to make much difference to anything (regarding getting anyone sick or from a political point of view). But I do think it's great fodder, ammunition, for people who don't like him.

As with most controversial things done by a political opposition.

Regarding Dr. Phillips, he has some solid creds in the EM and disaster med community, but some of his peers thinks that his partisanship is over the top and clouds his professionalism (not kissing and telling, but one of his colleagues used to be one of my colleagues where I work and we keep in touch).

Fair enough.

 

[Locksteady]

So, Devil's Advocate...

What if the President does release in the next day or so and has no additional symptoms; fully recovered...

Doesn't this stand as a pretty solid counter argument to what many are presenting? Doesn't it seemingly confirm that this is a mild virus for most, even some at high risk? Doesn't it stand in contrast to the actions some states are taking?

To me, it potentially stands as strong argument against critics.

One success story representing three higher risk factors for COVID-19 fatality does not a general proof make, particularly in the case of widespread health threats where societies have suffered for -not- treating them as deadlier than they may be.

 

[Blizzard]

One success story...

C'mon Man! Seriously, that's not even close to being intellectually honest about this.

It's not conjecture, it's a fact: far more people recover from the virus than succumb to it. Numerous members of Congress had the virus and recovered There have been other world leaders as well, most notably, Boris Johnson.

That doesn't mean it's not serious issue for some, but now I'm just repeating...

 

[GOTWA]

Voluntarily violating medical recommendations for an unnecessary political stunt is not at all comparable to doing the same in the course of providing necessary medical care to the public as an essential healthcare provider.

How does one violate a recommendation?

Which I don't need to know that both you and the President are skirting official CDC guidelines for reducing the spread as much as possible - albeit with dramatically different justifications.

Guideline - a general rule, principle, or piece of advice.

In other words, the OFFICIAL CDC GUIDELINES = an official piece of advice.

You can keep on spouting how POTUS keeps putting lives in danger, but how about some personal accountability of those that CHOOSE to be around him?

I'm sure the next thing to come out is how Mcenany put 'journalist' in danger during the WH press briefings. They CHOOSE to be in the room with her given her CHOICE to maintain contact with POTUS.

 

[Cookie_]

So, Devil's Advocate...

What if the President does release in the next day or so and has no additional symptoms; fully recovered...

Doesn't this stand as a pretty solid counter argument to what many are presenting? Doesn't it seemingly confirm that this is a mild virus for most, even some at high risk? Doesn't it stand in contrast to the actions some states are taking?

To me, it potentially stands as strong argument against critics.

Counter point: do you think the average American in the same demographic as the President has access to an around to clock medical team?

There is a sea of difference between the type of care that is being afforded to the President and the type of care afforded to someone else.

 

[Blizzard]

Counter point: do you think the average American in the same demographic as the President has access to an around to clock medical team?

There is a sea of difference between the type of care that is being afforded to the President and the type of care afforded to someone else.

Of course they don't, unless by demographic you're referring to wealthy elite, in which case I change my answer. But just because he went to the hospital and had round the clock care doesn't necessarily mean he needed to either. The President gets a lot of additional care and attention on a lot of things that may not be needed but are done so out of an abundance of caution. I have no idea how serious or mild his case is and frankly, aside from those on his medical team, no one else does either.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Here's the data on young people. With citations in a long ass thread.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1313162488955973634

 

[Devildoc]

We (Appalachian State Univ., in the mountains) had a 19 year-old die from COVID about a week ago. According to media he had no underlying illness or predisposing history. Doctors called it a "one in 10 million" event as he was "a super healthy athlete.

I am not diminishing his death, and it is tragic; that said, young people don't get it much, and when they do, it's super mild, and rarely serious.

 

[Locksteady]

How does one violate a recommendation?

This is a good semantical question that highlights a flaw in my wording. You may replace it with 'ignore'.

Guideline - a general rule, principle, or piece of advice.

In other words, the OFFICIAL CDC GUIDELINES = an official piece of advice.

You can keep on spouting how POTUS keeps putting lives in danger, but how about some personal accountability of those that CHOOSE to be around him?

The President is responsible for making choices that needlessly put his protective detail, their families, and anyone else they contact into danger. His choice to deliberately put them at risk is not somehow justified or softened by their decision to keep their employment by showing up to work.

I'm sure the next thing to come out is how Mcenany put 'journalist' in danger during the WH press briefings.

They would not be at risk of contracting it from her if she had followed CDC guidelines.

She chose not to.

They CHOOSE to be in the room with her given her CHOICE to maintain contact with POTUS.

Their choice to put themselves at risk doesn't absolve her of her (or the administration's) decision to make that event possible. If the White House administration was taking any of it seriously, they would have taken responsibility for their own staff's potential for spreading infection by having the Press Secretary conduct her job remotely and respond to digitally submitted questions from the Press Corps.

They were too focused on maintaining their posture to bother taking responsibility for the health risk posed by their own staff.

 

[ThunderHorse]

They would not be at risk of contracting it from her if she had followed CDC guidelines.

In order to not breath in this particle you would need to wear much more than a cloth face covering. More likely a P100 or let's just go all the way to an M50 with the requisite filters of course. And none of those folks are wearing those.

 

[Locksteady]

Great news for POTUS' recovery.

Covid-19 Live Updates: Trump’s Doctors Say He Can Return to the White House, Where Treatments Will Continue

 

[Cookie_]

I have no idea how serious or mild his case is and frankly, aside from those on his medical team, no one else does either.

That's the rub.

He isn't a good example of this "being overblown" because no one will no how bad his symptoms actually were.

As for care; his doctor said he got good cocktail of drugs within the first day of being admitted, including a steroidal treatment.

I've had soldiers in my unit get it and be sent home with nothing, told to only come into the hospital if "symptoms worsen and you have difficulty breathing".

I don't say that to say "look, Trump was super sick!" but to highlight the fact that, regardless of how severe is symptoms were they treated them as if they were worst case scenario (as they should).

 

[ThunderHorse]

Folks, we once had a president incapacitated for two years and his wife ran things out of the Oval Office. And now we hang on every letter of a tweet regarding the health of a POTUS when he has the leading medical care in the western world provided to him as a method of security.

 

[Jaknight]

Folks, we once had a president incapacitated for two years and his wife ran things out of the Oval Office. And now we hang on every letter of a tweet regarding the health of a POTUS when he has the leading medical care in the western world provided to him as a method of security.

Who was that?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Who was that?

Woodrow Wilson had a stroke in 1919. The Cabinet basically hid what had happened to him from the vast majority of the people and filtered comms that required the President's input. And Edith Wislon ran the show.

 

[Blizzard]

That's the rub.

He isn't a good example of this "being overblown" because no one will no how bad his symptoms actually were.

As for care; his doctor said he got good cocktail of drugs within the first day of being admitted, including a steroidal treatment.

I've had soldiers in my unit get it and be sent home with nothing, told to only come into the hospital if "symptoms worsen and you have difficulty breathing".

I don't say that to say "look, Trump was super sick!" but to highlight the fact that, regardless of how severe is symptoms were they treated them as if they were worst case scenario (as they should).

But, at least for the moment, he's also not Boris Johnson in ICU, considering a ventilator either.

By all reports and public observations, he's not had any serious symptoms up to this point. He had a positive test and some mild symptoms, whatever that means. I don't know how anyone can make more or less of than that it is.