Covid-19

It’s mainly been staffing issues down here. Some restaurants I know of have closed up shop because they wouldn’t have staffing to operate. One regional chain eatery a block down is open seven days a week near the beach and in the north part of the county, but is only open Wednesday through Sunday at the West Mobile location. Once Mobile opened back up, they closed down for another 3-4mo because they didn’t have staffing to run the place.

Many other restaurants close by 8pm, the grocery stores by 10pm, and Walmart closes at 11pm. I have to drive quite a few miles to find a 24hr gas station.

At my place of business, we backed down our closing times by an hour because absolutely nobody wanted to work at a place that closed at midnight on weekdays and 0100 on Friday and Saturday. We couldn’t keep more than the core five line cooks longer than a week if they had to work closing shifts. The servers would quit because what little business would come in that last hour were teenagers who tried to dine and dash or they were so high they couldn’t remember what they ordered, which meant the server wouldn’t get tipped for shit.

There’s quite a few bars that stay open later, and a couple of fast food joints have gone back to late night/all night drive through service. Yet we still have some Waffle Houses that go takeout only for third shift.

As far as why, there’s a few reasons. Sure, there’s folks who didn’t want to work. There’s a lot more that just don’t want to work in the service industry anymore. They were treated like shit before covid, and it’s only gotten worse since the pandemic started. Some got disability, others got skills training and said “Fuck you Karen, and your entitled bullshit family. I’m out.” I don’t blame them.
 
Staffing, driven in part by the pandemic and especially on the government subsidies provided during the pandemic, seem to driving the business hours in my locale. I went to my favorite local restaurant for lunch on Tuesday (normally just eat dinner there) and it was closed. There are “Help Wanted” signs everywhere.

We didn’t lose this many working age people in the pandemic. Where did they go, and what are they doing now?
 
Blizzard said:
That's the interesting thing. Why are there staffing shortages all of the sudden?

Are a significant number afraid to return to work? If so, why? Are they leaving the work force completely? How are they paying bills? Surely most don’t have huge nest eggs saved up. At the same time, many people appear eager to spend if given the opportunity - demand is there.

This all happened within the last 2 years - like some one flipped a switch.
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This is how it looks from where I sit:

Many Boomers were still working when the pandemic hit. They had no intention of retiring. My first husband worked until he died and that was my plan too. But then we were forced to stay home. Retirement started looking like something we could actually do without going stir crazy. Next, the real estate market goes up and interest rates go down. "Ya know, I can sell this place and downsize and have little/no house payment."

So now, trickle down starts. The up and coming kids who've been waiting for an opening in their particular field now have them. Even the kids (30 yr olds) who are still in blue collar jobs making under $20 are starting to demand more because "hey, there's a labor shortage and you are paying the new hires more than me."

That was the switch that flipped. The Baby Boomers have driven the trends and economy for so long and were willing to work into their 70s. Now, not so much.
 
Here it's a combination of factors. Inflation has caused many places to raise prices significantly. Now they can't pay employee's enough for them to drive to work, due to insane gas prices. We'll be over $7 a gallon by July, for most of the country; some regions are already there. And if they raise prices to cover higher wages, they can't compete and go out of business. We lost a lot of businesses from the lockdowns.

Then there's the up and coming generation that won't settle for anything less than remote work and/or Mon-Fri, 8-4; with all the benefits and holidays. Many also refuse any difficulty or physical labor. The concept of equality of outcome, pushed in education; has come to roost.
 
RackMaster said:
Here it's a combination of factors. Inflation has caused many places to raise prices significantly. Now they can't pay employee's enough for them to drive to work, due to insane gas prices. We'll be over $7 a gallon by July, for most of the country; some regions are already there. And if they raise prices to cover higher wages, they can't compete and go out of business. We lost a lot of businesses from the lockdowns.

Then there's the up and coming generation that won't settle for anything less than remote work and/or Mon-Fri, 8-4; with all the benefits and holidays. Many also refuse any difficulty or physical labor. The concept of equality of outcome, pushed in education; has come to roost.
Click to expand...

This ties into the 'new normal' of poor customer service. I don't fully blame the kids or young generation; they are not smart enough to know. I also blame the parents for raising kids with poor work ethic and shitty attitudes. All the consumer-driven businesses are so poorly staffed that these people will leave and go to another (fast food restaurant, store, shop, whatever), knowing they will get hired, even if they had been fired.

It is indeed a combination of factors (I think the buzz word is 'multimodal'), and just affecting one isn't going to work.

I will say this about COVID, and this is a double-edged sword (a la Musk and his return-to-the-office mandate): COVID has really shown us what has to be done at the office, and what can be done remotely. That genie is out, and ain't ever going back in the bottle. I am glad that so many businesses have been forced to rethink operations and how to deliver the work. Now we know. But it has come at a price of a workforce that may refuse work unless it's remote/home.
 
Devildoc said:
This ties into the 'new normal' of poor customer service. I don't fully blame the kids or young generation; they are not smart enough to know. I also blame the parents for raising kids with poor work ethic and shitty attitudes. All the consumer-driven businesses are so poorly staffed that these people will leave and go to another (fast food restaurant, store, shop, whatever), knowing they will get hired, even if they had been fired.

It is indeed a combination of factors (I think the buzz word is 'multimodal'), and just affecting one isn't going to work.

I will say this about COVID, and this is a double-edged sword (a la Musk and his return-to-the-office mandate): COVID has really shown us what has to be done at the office, and what can be done remotely. That genie is out, and ain't ever going back in the bottle. I am glad that so many businesses have been forced to rethink operations and how to deliver the work. Now we know. But it has come at a price of a workforce that may refuse work unless it's remote/home.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.

I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.

I am in the OR for an urgent C-section, I had placed an epidural earlier in the day, and had dosed it. We are waiting on surgeon. Some prolly 50 year old nurse comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Telling techs their PPE is incorrect, hollering at the OR nurse, Just being a nuisance. My patient is awake, not sedated at all. She then starts to come at me with bullshit. “Why doesn’t the patient have oxygen?” And other nonsense. Me: “Well the patient isn’t sedated, she is talking, and she is a healthy 25 year old.” I get an eye roll, on my response, and probably got written up. I’m not an employee here, so after she walks out I ask “who was that”?

She is the manager and clinical educator. She treats everyone like dog shit. She and people like her in all fields are the reason no one can retain staff. In healthcare it is easy to say “I’m going to travel” and make 3x the money and not have to deal with these issues.

Admin will be like “we aren’t retaining staff let’s pay more….” But most people in my generation would probably take less money for a better managed, less toxic environment.

Everything isn’t a generational issue, but I think my generation and the one below is much less likely to stick it out and be loyal, while we watched our fathers get layed off when they turned 60, pensions disappear, and have realized how unlikely our dreams are from actually being realized.
 
TLDR20 said:
I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.

I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.

I am in the OR for an urgent C-section, I had placed an epidural earlier in the day, and had dosed it. We are waiting on surgeon. Some prolly 50 year old nurse comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Telling techs their PPE is incorrect, hollering at the OR nurse, Just being a nuisance. My patient is awake, not sedated at all. She then starts to come at me with bullshit. “Why doesn’t the patient have oxygen?” And other nonsense. Me: “Well the patient isn’t sedated, she is talking, and she is a healthy 25 year old.” I get an eye roll, on my response, and probably got written up. I’m not an employee here, so after she walks out I ask “who was that”?

She is the manager and clinical educator. She treats everyone like dog shit. She and people like her in all fields are the reason no one can retain staff. In healthcare it is easy to say “I’m going to travel” and make 3x the money and not have to deal with these issues.

Admin will be like “we aren’t retaining staff let’s pay more….” But most people in my generation would probably take less money for a better managed, less toxic environment.

Everything isn’t a generational issue, but I think my generation and the one below is much less likely to stick it out and be loyal, while we watched our fathers get layed off when they turned 60, pensions disappear, and have realized how unlikely our dreams are from actually being realized.
Click to expand...

A good half of RNs I know that are/were in the ED have left for travel, they are burnt from the politics.

Hell, I have a good EMS job but, it I could leave now, I would. 22 years is enough for me.
 
TLDR20 said:
I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.

I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.

I am in the OR for an urgent C-section, I had placed an epidural earlier in the day, and had dosed it. We are waiting on surgeon. Some prolly 50 year old nurse comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Telling techs their PPE is incorrect, hollering at the OR nurse, Just being a nuisance. My patient is awake, not sedated at all. She then starts to come at me with bullshit. “Why doesn’t the patient have oxygen?” And other nonsense. Me: “Well the patient isn’t sedated, she is talking, and she is a healthy 25 year old.” I get an eye roll, on my response, and probably got written up. I’m not an employee here, so after she walks out I ask “who was that”?

She is the manager and clinical educator. She treats everyone like dog shit. She and people like her in all fields are the reason no one can retain staff. In healthcare it is easy to say “I’m going to travel” and make 3x the money and not have to deal with these issues.

Admin will be like “we aren’t retaining staff let’s pay more….” But most people in my generation would probably take less money for a better managed, less toxic environment.

Everything isn’t a generational issue, but I think my generation and the one below is much less likely to stick it out and be loyal, while we watched our fathers get layed off when they turned 60, pensions disappear, and have realized how unlikely our dreams are from actually being realized.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to LOL, but LOL. I hate people like that. When I teach new educators, I teach them to be the anti that.

When I mean kids and young generation, I mean the folks we see as cashiers, baggers, front-line CS staff, at the drive-thru, working the clothing racks, etc. I have seen some flat-out tell a supervisor, "I ain't doing that." I have seen one tell a customer "you know, you don't have to shop here, you can just leave." These things tend to follow an age range. It isn't about money when they can leave and go next door (to the store that also has 10 openings) and make the same thing, even if they are fired.

Two of my three working sons left Harris-Teeter because of poor management, went to Chik-Fil-A where they are valued, trained, and incentivized. They love it there.

There is absolutely shitty work ethic in our field as demonstrated by your story. That's in a class all by itself.

As for taking a job for less $ but better work environment, that's why I am where I am. And not the first time (in nursing or out) I have done that, either.
 
Muppet said:
A good half of RNs I know that are/were in the ED have left for travel, they are burnt from the politics.

Hell, I have a good EMS job but, it I could leave now, I would. 22 years is enough for me.
Click to expand...

When I started in the ED it was about 85% staff, 15% travelers. Now it's about 50/50. Also the average experience went from 12 years to 2.

Nursing has a whole set of struggles all its own, and most are self-induced. I could write a book about how fucked up we are.

Edited to add, almost all of my former EMS colleagues are retiring or nearly retiring, but every one of them still has to work doing something. That is a freaking shame. That's not 'retirement.'
 
TLDR20 said:
I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.

I am in the OR for an urgent C-section, I had placed an epidural earlier in the day, and had dosed it. We are waiting on surgeon. Some prolly 50 year old nurse comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Telling techs their PPE is incorrect, hollering at the OR nurse, Just being a nuisance. My patient is awake, not sedated at all. She then starts to come at me with bullshit. “Why doesn’t the patient have oxygen?” And other nonsense. Me: “Well the patient isn’t sedated, she is talking, and she is a healthy 25 year old.” I get an eye roll, on my response, and probably got written up. I’m not an employee here, so after she walks out I ask “who was that”?

She is the manager and clinical educator. She treats everyone like dog shit. She and people like her in all fields are the reason no one can retain staff. In healthcare it is easy to say “I’m going to travel” and make 3x the money and not have to deal with these issues.

Admin will be like “we aren’t retaining staff let’s pay more….” But most people in my generation would probably take less money for a better managed, less toxic environment.

Everything isn’t a generational issue, but I think my generation and the one below is much less likely to stick it out and be loyal, while we watched our fathers get layed off when they turned 60, pensions disappear, and have realized how unlikely our dreams are from actually being realized.
Click to expand...
I believe we have footage of this. Is this her? 🤣
 
TLDR20 said:
I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.
Click to expand...
I think it's multi-faceted; poor work ethic being one of those. Entitlement being another.

I was very seriously looking to open a small side business last year as simply a may to augment my current income. This business would've had a brick and mortor storefront. I had a solid business plan, great site location (lease in hand), complete build out plans, etc....all solved except for staffing. I ultimately decided to shelf the idea for now because obtaining/retaining staff at a wage commensurate with the work is too challenging in the current environment, even with the current inflated wages.

Businesses are in business to make money. It's that simple. Now, consider a small business, like a coffee shop or ice cream shop. How much product do they need to sell and at what price point in order to cover a $17/hr barista or ice cream scooper. These are entry level, unskilled positions. High schoolers should fill these types of jobs. So, in many cases it just doesn't make good financial sense.

But as pointed out by others here, the problem goes beyond the service industries. The issue is also visible in more skilled and professional industries. Finding qualified candidates is a nightmare. I've seen huge challenges finding help in everything from high school coaches/officials to lifeguards to IT developers to building trades to executive level project/program managers. We saw some in healthcare forced out due to mandates and, as a result, we see shortages there too. And of course there's all the nonsense taking place with law enforcement as well.
 
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SpitfireV said:
Some of you guys sound like you're 110 years old sitting in the home. Guess what, your parents complained about your generation and theirs and theirs and theirs until literally 2500 years ago when generational complaints were first recorded.
Click to expand...

They say 110 is the new 53, and I am, in fact, 53.

I am absolutely certain my mother bitched about me and my generation. Why am I certain? I heard that almost everyday.

The only reason I framed my responses the way I did was because that was my 'n', my sample size. And none of our grocery stores, fast food restaurants, or retail stores have I seen many people at the front line above I would say 25. That said, my specific gripes that I mentioned are for people that I've seen that are probably somewhere between 17 and 22.

Now to throw a little bit of balance I guess, when I go places it like Lowe's or Home Depot, It seems the average age is a little older, and I would say while the cashiers still fit my description above, the people whom I ask DIY questions are a bit older and have been very helpful.

I am not dogging on all the generations, or even specifically the young generation, specifically the people I observe and the generation they happen to be in.
 
RackMaster said:
Then there's the up and coming generation that won't settle for anything less than remote work and/or Mon-Fri, 8-4; with all the benefits and holidays. Many also refuse any difficulty or physical labor. The concept of equality of outcome, pushed in education; has come to roost.
Click to expand...

The pandemic clearly showed that for almost any non-hands on/blue collar industry that remote work and more consistent schedules did little to impact the function of those industries. Why the hell would you willing work bullshit hours when you know you don't have to?

Same thing about "benefits and holidays". Again; it's the employers job to intice workers, not the workers job to take whatever is open, treatment be damned.

Blizzard said:
I think it's multi-faceted; poor work ethic being one of those. Entitlement being another.

I was very seriously looking to open a small side business last year as simply a may to augment my current income. This business would've had a brick and mortor storefront. I had a solid business plan, great site location (lease in hand), complete build out plans, etc....all solved except for staffing. I ultimately decided to shelf the idea for now because obtaining/retaining staff at a wage commensurate with the work is too challenging in the current environment, even with the current inflated wages.

Businesses are in business to make money. It's that simple. Now, consider a small business, like a coffee shop or ice cream shop. How much product do they need to sell and at what price point in order to cover a $17/hr barista or ice cream scooper. These are entry level, unskilled positions. High schoolers should fill these types of jobs. So, in many cases it just doesn't make good financial sense.
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as unskilled labor.
When's the last time you've worked as a barista at a busy coffee shop, or done any sort of service industry "unskilled" work?

It absolutely takes skill to produce, you just don't value it.
If all these jobs should be done by high schoolers, I'd imagine your fine with these businesses only running after school hours and before curfew, right? That's the only time these kids can work after all.

The idea of "it's a kids job" is about 20 years out of date.
 
@Dame hit on one of the single biggest drivers of this; a shit ton of older people are just leaving the workforce because they've finally decided to retire.

Also add in that a bunch left to take care of family (medical/parental) and there's another decent chunk gone.

As far as service industry type jobs go, it isn't the 80s/90s anymore. Those of us in the older millennial generation (late 80s early 90s) on down all understand that most of these jobs are bullshit. Why work for a restaurant at $12 a hour when I could uber and make more than that?

Everybody spent years saying "if you want to get paid more, get a better job" but are now acting like it's a crime that their local businesses don't stay open past 9pm.

Why is it the workers fault for being "entitled" because these businesses can't run without underpaying staff?

That's capitalism in action. If you can't pay enough to keep employees and make a profit, your business isn't meant to survive in this system.
 

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