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- Sep 12, 2012
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I “liked” your post. But where I struggle is , did we do the best we could with the information we had at the time?
I don’t know where the line is between “shoulda known better” and Monday morning quarterback.
Covid-19
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
- Start date
I don’t know where the line is between “shoulda known better” and Monday morning quarterback.
The bolded part is the worst thing about the vaccine messaging.
There are very few vaccines that 100% no shit are supposed to stop you from getting the disease in question.
The WHO only tracks 31 that do that in humans.
The media and government spokespeople ran with that "90%+ efficacy rate" (in trials) without ever contextualizing that.
Most vaccines are not able to fully prevent infection, they're just able to prevent the worst symptoms.
It's the reason you can still get the flu even if you get the vaccine; the vaccine is supposed to just prep your body's defenses to make it more mild.
ETA: Looking at the death/hospitalization rates for COVID, it actually is pretty analogous to the flu.
Deaths and hospitalizations for COVID spike in January/February before falling off.
For me, that line is right about when vaccination became readily available to all adults. So around May 2021.
By that point, we'd learned how to better care for those hospitalized by it and had better understand of transmissions vectors and steps to help mitigate that.
People forget that COVID "wasn't that bad" precisely because nothing was functioning normal.
Prior to lockdowns we had around 2k deaths a day. When lockdowns started lifting in early 2021 in was 3k.
Imagine the economic impact had we attempted to operate "as is" when it first got here.
SpongeBob*24
Verified Military
Just found out today that I have COVID round two. Thought it was a lingering cold. Tested because i was supposed to travel to Japan tomorrow.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I say nope. But it would have taken a president with Huevos bigger than Trump to sack Fauci's ass and say fuck it, full speed ahead and actually cut off China. When travel was "suspended" hundreds of flights were still occurring.
And also, the medical industrial complex, teachers unions, all vehemently against actually doing their damn jobs.
But also, humans are a social people. Worl leaders damaged their economies but also their people. Thank God for Republican governors.
If you look at my posts I've been relatively consistent on my points if view. I think.
The bolded part was my attitude for a long time. I even talked to my students about it--"this is my first global pandemic too... I think people are just trying to do the best they can." But over time, it became clear to me that the people who were saying "follow the science" actually meant "follow the political science," i.e. it's all about money, power, and control. We all knew very early that masks were ineffective but we made everyone wear them anyway (and still make people wear them, wtf Chik Fil A). We all knew very early that children are literally at the lowest possible risk of contracting COVID and that distance learning as a default setting is a disaster, but we made them stay home, and then get vaxxed, and mask up on top of it all when they were finally allowed to come back anyway.
Even exploring the possibility of a lab leak and/or a Chinese .gov cover-up would bring cries of "muh racizms!!" and would get people formal and long-lasting social media sanctions. In fact, I don't remember it becoming kosher to talk about the possibility of a Wuhan lab leak until Bill Maher started doing it.
We made people social distance, restricting them even from going to the beach, or being on the water alone, and we shut down our economy even though we didn't need to. Then we gave people so many government handouts that many of them still haven't gone back to work. We allowed the Teachers Union to dictate national COVID policy. So many people in health care got fired over not wanting the (ineffective and experimental) vaccine that there was such a shortage that they had to bring the military in, and force COVID-positive (even though they had the vax!) health care workers to come in. So many people left the military, got kicked out over, or refused to join in the first place because of the jab requirement. And we left restrictions in place far, far after we knew it was either ineffective, or worse overall than the possibility of contracting the disease. And those policies STILL haven't been rolled back, even though there are still shortages in both health care and the military, and we know the vaccine doesn't work.
We had the information. We had it for a long time. We're where we are as a nation today because of what people decided to do with the information.
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Devildoc
Verified Military
I struggle with this, because I was 'front lines' before we even had a grasp on what this was and have seen a huge variation of attitudes and responses.
I think the initial response was born out of righteous fear (AKA, "millions are gonna die!"). I get that. I also get the desire to fast-track a vaccine. But when so many people, experts and SMEs, came out and said "this isn't working, we oughta think about XXXXXX" and were at the very least ignored and and the very most railroaded and shamed and fired, with the government digging in its' heels every time something was disproven, it became about politics and not medicine; certainly not about public health.
I have said as much where I work, and while I don't possess the credentials and stature to be made a pariah or martyr, I am often seen as a unicorn and one to be ignored, almost like Don Quixote. But more and more people like me are speaking up.
I think the initial response was born out of righteous fear (AKA, "millions are gonna die!"). I get that. I also get the desire to fast-track a vaccine. But when so many people, experts and SMEs, came out and said "this isn't working, we oughta think about XXXXXX" and were at the very least ignored and and the very most railroaded and shamed and fired, with the government digging in its' heels every time something was disproven, it became about politics and not medicine; certainly not about public health.
I have said as much where I work, and while I don't possess the credentials and stature to be made a pariah or martyr, I am often seen as a unicorn and one to be ignored, almost like Don Quixote. But more and more people like me are speaking up.
What was an eye-opener to me was the volume of med professionals who were refusing it, to the point of losing their jobs over it. These are people who are in the profession, and who are most likely to get exposed to it because of that, and they were still balking.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2012
- Messages
- 12,465
What you were discussing is the one part that has me resentful, I probably would’ve not gotten the vaccine, but the company I work for made it very clear that without the vaccine I would not be bonus eligible and my company pays “really good“ bonuses.
Health concerns aside, I could not financially afford to not to get the vaccine.
I live in Atlanta, home of Chik-Fil-A and they aren't forcing wearing them here. They are optional. Must be a local thing.
https://www.chick-fil-a.com/serving-you-safely/faqs
Devildoc
Verified Military
I have two sons who work for CFA; one, full-time. Masking is indeed a local thing, and each store is encouraged to follow the local jurisdiction policies/protocols. No CFAs where we live are wearing masks.
It is entirely possible that it's an NYC requirement and not a Chik Fil A one, I hadn't considered that. I didn't go into any other restaurants when I was in town (CFA or bust!!) and there are no CFAs near where I live, so no basis for comparison.
Oh Look.... Actual Science...
Scientists find COVID-19 antibodies that can make boosters unnecessary
Encouraging if it isn't fake news...
Scientists find COVID-19 antibodies that can make boosters unnecessary
Encouraging if it isn't fake news...
Out-of-context quote, from the article:
That's me! Got my third shot because it was a requirement to bypass quarantine going into Japan. Not sure it did anything for me.
Topkick
Verified Military
There was talk some time ago about having kids go to school the entire year. Maybe now would be the time for this. Also, maybe hard focus on core, not on social issues.
Biggest fucking scam ever. What started as a pandemic, morphed into virtue signaling, social and political scams.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
He was right the entire time.
