Covid-19

[pardus]

It was more of a referendum on what we discussed earlier; I'll expound.

I spent a lot of time (a lot) researching, having discussions, and trying to get to a place where I can still have a valuable conversation about this shit over the last two years. I had friends that worked at "COVID ground zero" in NYC for months when they were "using coolers for the dead"; I was engaged and active as a "senior medic" inside my lane and command; I was also at the tactical level and dealt with a lot of stuff. I won't bore you- but after 2 years, 3 continents, countless hours of research and meetings and symposiums and zoom calls and trying to be better, I came to a realization.

This is no longer a scientific discussion, it's ideological. It's a scramble to the "appeal to authority high ground," all the while tearing down each other because of quite obvious political bias. One side is most certainly being suppressed by the larger medical structure, aided by big tech, as an action arm of the government. All in the name of "preventing misinformation." The guy that invented MRNA technology brings up very real concerns on the Joe Rogan podcast, and the machine comes after him. "He's a hck!" the pundits on MSNBC claimed. Joe Rogan himself was taking horse dewormer, only to have the CDC come out (quietly, as always) and say that yeah, maybe off label Ivermectin is good. Oh, and monoclonal antibodies, too. Any doctors who speak out are silenced and their character assassinated. No matter if it turns out they were right or not. Member this? No lockdowns, COVID death rates exaggerated. That's what they said from looking at the evidence. We all realize these are truths now.

We wield tweets from blue-check doctors as if every day is our "mic drop" moment. It essentially havin an argument in your shower where you win every time, except you do it on the internet in front of people.

So no more studies from me. No more back and forth with "Your study is bunk NO YOUR STUDY IS BUNK NO YOUR SOURCE ISN'T VALID." I played that game from the tactical to the strategic level.

I am not making any claims that aren't out there. If you want to look at the veracity of my claim, google it, and make your own decision.

I will just continue to hold this line and wait a tick. If history shows us anything, it's that I'll be correct in 12-18 months.

Thank you. I guess I missed the referendum thing, whatever that was.
I'm not sure that I agree that there isn't a scientific discussion to be had, science by it's very nature is never ending, but the science has certainly been hijacked by politics/ideology in one of the more disturbing/disgusting displays of a power-grab that I've had the misfortune to experience. Fuck the mandates. I lived the whole ER, bodies in the coolers thing in NY, then went on to deploy for a while as the NCOIC of a covid isolation facility in Kuwait, it burnt me out, and I just turned my back on it all (covid), and went on with my life as normally as I could, so I think I kind of understand where you're at, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.

 

[AWP]

25YO me would never believe I could look back on a Bill Clinton presidency and consider it a part of the "good old days." Seriously. As broken as that presidency was, and maybe I'm projecting some baseless hope, but I can't imagine COVID in '98 would be handled the same as COVID in 2020.

 

[Marauder06]

I went to an academic event at Yale last weekend. The COVID-related requirements were as follows:

In alignment with Yale’s current event guidelines, we are requiring all guests to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19. Additionally, we encourage guests to self-test on Saturday morning. If you test positive or feel unwell in any way, we ask that you refrain from attending the event. Yale event staff will have masks and hand sanitizer available for all guests, upon request. We thank you for your cooperation.

Please note that masks will be required Woolsey Hall during programming.

Requiring vaccinations AND masks? We're really still doing this?? I thought the President said the pandemic was over. Yeah, but then again he extended the state of emergency another 90 days or whatever. OK fine, I want to go to this event so I'll play your silly game.

I got to the venue and they have masks for everyone, which is good because most of the sane world stopped acting like masks matter a long time ago and very few people now wear them out in public.

Annoyed, I put on my mask and go into the theater to hear the guest speakers. I'm not important and many people who were there are, so I sat in the back. One of the people acknowledged by the MC at the start of the ceremony was... John Kerry. As people were recognized, they stood and waved to the attendees. Out of that entire theater, the only person in the audience who was not obediently wearing their stupid little conformity mask was... John Kerry. I thought that maybe the MC caught him at a time when he had his mask off to take a sip of water or something, but shortly after the event started I saw SEC Kerry get up and walk out, still not wearing a mask.

Now there could be any number of reasons why John Kerry wasn't wearing a mask like all of the rest of us had to. Perhaps he has a medical condition that precludes it. Perhaps he wasn't briefed on the requirement by his team. Perhaps he realized he didn't have a mask, and when I saw him get up and leave the theater, he was going to get one. I fully recognize my lack of information and my own biases as they relate to this situation. But for me, that pretty much covered the whole COVID experience: if you're rich and powerful, especially if you're a rich and powerful leftist, the rules simply don't apply to you. The rest of us still have to go through the motions.

There were to large receptions after the formal events, at which I don't recall a single person having on a mask. So I guess COVID could only get us when we're spread out in a large theater, not when we're literally face to face over good food and a well-stocked open bar.

On an unrelated-to-COVID note, the first speaker at I heard at Saturday's event was Fareed Zakaria. I had heard him on CNN and seen other talks he gave, but this was the first time I had heard him in person. I was VERY impressed. He is an excellent public speaker. He talked for I think 45 minutes, but it seemed shorter because he was so good, weaving in International Relations theory, history, and current events into an informative, humorous, and appropriate lecture to mark the establishment of the School. Other than to read a lengthy quote from a poem (I think it was Mort du Arthur?) I didn't notice him look down at his notes a single time. And as far as I could tell, there was no teleprompter or other visual aid. Dude is just a good public speaker. However many tens of thousands of dollars Yale paid him for a couple of hours of his time, it was worth it.

 

[pardus]

I went to an academic event at Yale last weekend. The COVID-related requirements were as follows:


Requiring vaccinations AND masks? We're really still doing this?? I thought the President said the pandemic was over. Yeah, but then again he extended the state of emergency another 90 days or whatever. OK fine, I want to go to this event so I'll play your silly game.

I got to the venue and they have masks for everyone, which is good because most of the sane world stopped acting like masks matter a long time ago and very few people now wear them out in public.

Annoyed, I put on my mask and go into the theater to hear the guest speakers. I'm not important and many people who were there are, so I sat in the back. One of the people acknowledged by the MC at the start of the ceremony was... John Kerry. As people were recognized, they stood and waved to the attendees. Out of that entire theater, the only person in the audience who was not obediently wearing their stupid little conformity mask was... John Kerry. I thought that maybe the MC caught him at a time when he had his mask off to take a sip of water or something, but shortly after the event started I saw SEC Kerry get up and walk out, still not wearing a mask.

Now there could be any number of reasons why John Kerry wasn't wearing a mask like all of the rest of us had to. Perhaps he has a medical condition that precludes it. Perhaps he wasn't briefed on the requirement by his team. Perhaps he realized he didn't have a mask, and when I saw him get up and leave the theater, he was going to get one. I fully recognize my lack of information and my own biases as they relate to this situation. But for me, that pretty much covered the whole COVID experience: if you're rich and powerful, especially if you're a rich and powerful leftist, the rules simply don't apply to you. The rest of us still have to go through the motions.

There were to large receptions after the formal events, at which I don't recall a single person having on a mask. So I guess COVID could only get us when we're spread out in a large theater, not when we're literally face to face over good food and a well-stocked open bar.

On an unrelated-to-COVID note, the first speaker at I heard at Saturday's event was Fareed Zakaria. I had heard him on CNN and seen other talks he gave, but this was the first time I had heard him in person. I was VERY impressed. He is an excellent public speaker. He talked for I think 45 minutes, but it seemed shorter because he was so good, weaving in International Relations theory, history, and current events into an informative, humorous, and appropriate lecture to mark the establishment of the School. Other than to read a lengthy quote from a poem (I think it was Mort du Arthur?) I didn't notice him look down at his notes a single time. And as far as I could tell, there was no teleprompter or other visual aid. Dude is just a good public speaker. However many tens of thousands of dollars Yale paid him for a couple of hours of his time, it was worth it.

Sill!? That's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Make it an option for those that feel the need or who are vulnerable, but to mandate that, at this point in time, just shows that education doesn't make you intelligent. Glad you enjoyed the talk, sounds interesting, I haven't been to a good talk in a while now.
I couldn't decide whether to hate or like your post, so you get nothing! lol

 

[Marauder06]

Sill!? That's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Make it an option for those that feel the need or who are vulnerable, but to mandate that, at this point in time, just shows that education doesn't make you intelligent. Glad you enjoyed the talk, sounds interesting, I haven't been to a good talk in a while now.
I couldn't decide whether to hate or like your post, so you get nothing! lol

I agree. If you think you need to wear a mask to protect yourself or your family, I respect that. Zero judgment from me. But the "medical theater" of mandating a vaccination that everyone knows doesn't work, (and then not even asking/checking at the event) and requiring a mask, that everyone knows doesn't work, and then ignoring it when "important" people flaunt the requirement--is just plain stupid.

 

[amlove21]

Thank you. I guess I missed the referendum thing, whatever that was.
I'm not sure that I agree that there isn't a scientific discussion to be had, science by it's very nature is never ending, but the science has certainly been hijacked by politics/ideology in one of the more disturbing/disgusting displays of a power-grab that I've had the misfortune to experience. Fuck the mandates. I lived the whole ER, bodies in the coolers thing in NY, then went on to deploy for a while as the NCOIC of a covid isolation facility in Kuwait, it burnt me out, and I just turned my back on it all (covid), and went on with my life as normally as I could, so I think I kind of understand where you're at, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.

I appreciate the fact that we don't agree. I value it. I am just not super sure that there is going to be a "valuable conversation" on the topic.

Related and simultaneously a hijack- what if I told you that the very idea of germ theory, virology itself, is fucking nonsense? What if I asked you to prove viruses even exist, and I told you that I could point to the earliest experiments and show you they in no way provide definitive proof that viruses are a thing.

I am not making that claim; I don't know enough about it yet. But give it a go and start here.

There was a time, not too long ago, when the overwhelming majority of all medical professionals knew- not thought, KNEW- that the way to prevent disease was to bleed it out. This was accepted medical practice, not thousands of years ago- but barely a few hundred. That realization and complete dismantling of "settled science" is what has led me to mistrust any/all of the medical community.

 

[Marauder06]

I appreciate the fact that we don't agree. I value it. I am just not super sure that there is going to be a "valuable conversation" on the topic.

Related and simultaneously a hijack- what if I told you that the very idea of germ theory, virology itself, is fucking nonsense? What if I asked you to prove viruses even exist, and I told you that I could point to the earliest experiments and show you they in no way provide definitive proof that viruses are a thing.

I am not making that claim; I don't know enough about it yet. But give it a go and start here.

There was a time, not too long ago, when the overwhelming majority of all medical professionals knew- not thought, KNEW- that the way to prevent disease was to bleed it out. This was accepted medical practice, not thousands of years ago- but barely a few hundred. That realization and complete dismantling of "settled science" is what has led me to mistrust any/all of the medical community.

Another uninformed opinion from me on a subject I know very little about:

But can't we see viruses in a microscope? And we can see viruses multiple and attack healthy cells and stuff. Or maybe I've watched "Outbreak" too many times? ;)

Something is certainly causing the effects of things we attribute to viruses. The bloodletting was a "cure," which is often harder to identify than a "cause," right?

 

[pardus]

I agree. If you think you need to wear a mask to protect yourself or your family, I respect that. Zero judgment from me. But the "medical theater" of mandating a vaccination that everyone knows doesn't work, (and then not even asking/checking at the event) and requiring a mask, that everyone knows doesn't work, and then ignoring it when "important" people flaunt the requirement--is just plain stupid.

I'm not sure where you're getting the "vaccine doesn't work" from, are you meaning it's not a guarantee to stop getting covid? (the entire subject has be so convoluted now it's hard to know what anyone means anymore).

I appreciate the fact that we don't agree. I value it. I am just not super sure that there is going to be a "valuable conversation" on the topic.

Related and simultaneously a hijack- what if I told you that the very idea of germ theory, virology itself, is fucking nonsense? What if I asked you to prove viruses even exist, and I told you that I could point to the earliest experiments and show you they in no way provide definitive proof that viruses are a thing.

I am not making that claim; I don't know enough about it yet. But give it a go and start here.

There was a time, not too long ago, when the overwhelming majority of all medical professionals knew- not thought, KNEW- that the way to prevent disease was to bleed it out. This was accepted medical practice, not thousands of years ago- but barely a few hundred. That realization and complete dismantling of "settled science" is what has led me to mistrust any/all of the medical community.

I would say that i'm fucking fascinated and I want to know more. I will definitely be looking at your link. Earliest experiments though? I'm going to be open minded though and look.
We still use bleeding (including the application of leeches) for certain medical conditions/injuries, i'm sure you know that.
There is no such thing as settled science, science is the pursuit of knowledge, which is by the very nature of the universe, ever changing. We don't use bleeding for everything now, because we thought, and tested, and experimented, and said we think we've found something better, and we'll do that until we can come up with something better, ad infinitum...

Another uninformed opinion from me on a subject I know very little about:

But can't we see viruses in a microscope? And we can see viruses multiple and attack healthy cells and stuff. Or maybe I've watched "Outbreak" too many times? ;)

Something is certainly causing the effects of things we attribute to viruses. The bloodletting was a "cure," which is often harder to identify than a "cause," right?

Yes we can see viruses, tiny as they are.
That was something handed down by the Greeks, the "Humors" and trying to keep them in balance. "The group of fourth- and third-century BC (Greek) physicians known as the Hippocratics"........... "Their notion that 4 bodily fluids—blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile—caused illness persisted for more than 2000 years in the West until the rise of controlled empirical science in the mid-19th century"
But we do still use some Greek ideas in medicine, such as step away from the monitoring machine and look at the patient. I find it all very interesting.

 

[Marauder06]

I'm not sure where you're getting the "vaccine doesn't work" from, are you meaning it's not a guarantee to stop getting covid? (the entire subject has be so convoluted now it's hard to know what anyone means anymore).

We were told that if we got the vaccine, we wouldn't get COVID.

I got the vaccine like a good little soldier, I got COVID anyway. Same with my father. I think I talked about it before in this thread.

Now that's a statistically-insignificant sample size of 2, but there are many, many people (millions?) who experienced the same thing.

Ergo, the vaccine doesn't work. Or maybe it works now and "didn't" work is a better way to describe it. Either way, we were given the wrong information about its efficacy. I got a risky vaccine for no good reason. So did millions of other people all over the world.

 

[pardus]

We were told that if we got the vaccine, we wouldn't get COVID.

I got the vaccine like a good little soldier, I got COVID anyway. Same with my father. I think I talked about it before in this thread.

Now that's a statistically-insignificant sample size of 2, but there are many, many people (millions?) we experienced the same thing.

Ergo, the vaccine doesn't work. Or maybe it works now and "didn't" work is a better way to describe it. Either way, we were given the wrong information about its efficacy. I got a risky vaccine for no good reason. So did millions of other people all over the world.

Gotcha, I thought that's what you may have meant.
Yeah anyone who said that getting the vaccine would stop you getting covid was lying.
It's like a flu vaccine, it will help make you better at fighting off an infection, and will make you less sick if you do get covid. That's it, that's the science. I hate the people that lied about it, and mandated it, now it has sown fear and loathing in a vaccine. Vaccines are awesome, anti vaxxers where always laughed at because, they were retarded, now thanks to the lies, millions of people are anti vaccine, thousands perhaps millions will die over time now due to vaccine hesitancy from all diseases. I think there are billions of people too many on the planet so I don't care, but it's just dumb, criminally dumb.

ETA: You have to be careful of Drs, they will answer you with a perfectly honest answer, but unless you know exactly what and how to ask, you will hear what the Dr wants you to hear. I noticed Fauci doing that on a couple of rare occasions I watched that nonsense in Congress.

 

[Marauder06]

Gotcha, I thought that's what you may have meant.
Yeah anyone who said that getting the vaccine would stop you getting covid was lying.
It's like a flu vaccine, it will help make you better at fighting off an infection, and will make you less sick if you do get covid. That's it, that's the science. I hate the people that lied about it, and mandated it, now it has sown fear and loathing in a vaccine. Vaccines are awesome, anti vaxxers where always laughed at because, they were retarded, now thanks to the lies, millions of people are anti vaccine, thousands perhaps millions will die over time now due to vaccine hesitancy from all diseases. I think there are billions of people too many on the planet so I don't care, but it's just dumb, criminally dumb.

I'm not convinced that the vaccine worked at all. I got laid up by the virus, and as a relatively-healthy 40-something man with no co-morbidities, it was hard for me to see how, short of being hospitalized or being killed outright (which typically wasn't happening to a lot of healthy middle aged Americans with access to effective medical care), the vax could have made things less-severe for me.

Same thing for my father, a very-healthy-for-his-age former 18A who got so sick I got a Red Cross message to come home because he was expectant. Literally the only thing that could have been worse for him is death. Maybe his vax kept him from dying. But I doubt it.

I have no hesitancy about many other long-standing vaccinations. I dutifully received my flu vax this year, even though I'm out of the Army in two weeks and will therefore never again pop on the bad list for MEDPROS. Because, unlike the COVID vax, I believe the flu vax has a long track record of being both safe and effective.

 

[pardus]

I'm not convinced that the vaccine worked at all. I got laid up by the virus, and as a relatively-healthy 40-something man with no co-morbidities, it was hard for me to see how, short of being hospitalized or being killed outright (which typically wasn't happening to a lot of healthy middle aged Americans with access to effective medical care), the vax could have made things less-severe for me.

Same thing for my father, a very-healthy-for-his-age former 18A who got so sick I got a Red Cross message to come home because he was expectant. Literally the only thing that could have been worse for him is death. Maybe his vax kept him from dying. But I doubt it.

I have no hesitancy about many other long-standing vaccinations. I dutifully received my flu vax this year, even though I'm out of the Army in two weeks and will therefore never again pop on the bad list for MEDPROS. Because, unlike the COVID vax, I believe the flu vax has a long track record of being both safe and effective.

I hear you mate, I don't doubt your experience, but I'm also pretty sure you and your dad received some benefit from the vaccine, but you'll never know for certain, but that's the same for the flu vaccine, it's impossible to tell how much it helps, but we know that it helps. The death rates in TX that I posted earlier are a good example of that, is that a guarantee? Nope, but it should be your choice.
I just got my flu shot too. I will add one thing, I don't really know anything about the supposed cardiac side effects, just because I haven't followed it, like I said, at a certain point when I wasn't working it anyone, I washed my hands and walked away.
I was the first person you would meet at the door when you tried to enter the ER I worked out, I had jovial conversations with a few people who came in because they felt a little weak etc... Healthy, happy, often with an alarmingly low blood oxygen level, but so low it was initially dismissed as an equipment failure as you can't walk/talk/laugh with O2 in the 60s/70s, I'd take them in, wish them well and they'd be dead 20 minutes later. Initially I refused to wear a mask in the ER, hoping I was going to catch it, get a couple of weeks off work and then have immunity, then people started dying who shouldn't be dying, we all looked at each other and thought Fuck, what is this!? The director of the ER got all staff together initially and said, don't worry, it's just a kind of flu, just wash your hands and don't let people cough in your face, two days later, he was wearing N95, goggles, isolation gown, the works, as were all the other Drs (they never told us to BTW, we just started doing it because they were. Thanks Dr M, you prick) we had two staff members die too. After the initial surge, the medical community had pretty much worked out that comorbidities were the biggest problem. However that was drowned out in media/political screaming. I learned to hate humanity just a little more

 

[amlove21]

My big issue is that we just accept ridiculously unfounded counter factual as as some sort of proof re: covid and vaccines. “I got the disease they told me I wouldn’t get if I got the vaccine; but I’m thankful, because it could have been much worse.”

No, that’s a lie. Or a damned lie. There is no way to even research that- what control group are you going to use? A group that wasn’t vaccinated, got covid, then that group gets in a Time Machine, goes back, gets vaccinated, and you compare morbidity and mortality?

Comparing unvaccinated individuals wholesale to vaccinated people wholesale gives you about as much information about the efficacy of the vaccine as their astrological sign. And people I perceive to be smart say it. It’s maddening. It’s willingness to parrot an ideological belief at the expense of your intellectual integrity.

VAERS currently has hundreds of thousands of adverse affects, to include deaths. I think we can agree that *some number* of people were injured by this vaccine. Whitewashing those numbers saying, “But so many more would have died!” Is immoral and unethical. And I won’t tolerate it in my presence.

@pardus this is a great ‘starting block’ to just at least start asking questions. To your direct question about methods used long ago; I thought the exact same thing. “I get it, their initial hypothesis wasn’t correct but they had to revisit, yeah?” I still haven’t gotten a sufficient answer to that question. Not even a partially adequate one.

I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Muppet]

I was a the lords chicken the other day. 2 lines, if they ran the government, we'd be in great shape. Car next to had some dude, by himself, wearing not only 1 mask, but 2. 2 different color masks. He saw me looking at him, I shook my head and started laughing at him.

Fuck him. Fuck this entire thing. Fuck the government fuck the media. Fuck the retards that bought into it, and continue to do so.

 

[Cookie_]

Yea, holistic health coaches ranting about the Rothschilds control over the medical industry and an alternative medicine doctor who sells a 250 dollar quartz water "wand" which "stabilizes H2O molecules into a crystalline coherent structure proven to reduce biological age" are totally on the up and up about virology, just like how Alex Jones' dick pills gave me a 13 inch hog.

There's legit criticisms of what we know about medical science, for sure.

But finding voices that are 100% opposite of everyone else and thinking "it's anti-establishment so it must have some truth" is how people become the rabbit kid.

ETA: I agree with the take that the medical/scientific community won't have a good picture of this event for another 18-24 months, if that.
It'll be something to look forward to being mildly interested in come 2024.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

 

[ThunderHorse]

This might be a non-sequitur, but I'll say again. Gastroenteritis almost killed me. Covid? I moved my fiancee from Tempe to Dallas in the summer heat with COVID. That shit was nothing.

Gotcha, I thought that's what you may have meant.
Yeah anyone who said that getting the vaccine would stop you getting covid was lying.
It's like a flu vaccine, it will help make you better at fighting off an infection, and will make you less sick if you do get covid. That's it, that's the science. I hate the people that lied about it, and mandated it, now it has sown fear and loathing in a vaccine. Vaccines are awesome, anti vaxxers where always laughed at because, they were retarded, now thanks to the lies, millions of people are anti vaccine, thousands perhaps millions will die over time now due to vaccine hesitancy from all diseases. I think there are billions of people too many on the planet so I don't care, but it's just dumb, criminally dumb.

ETA: You have to be careful of Drs, they will answer you with a perfectly honest answer, but unless you know exactly what and how to ask, you will hear what the Dr wants you to hear. I noticed Fauci doing that on a couple of rare occasions I watched that nonsense in Congress.

Mate, I'm not going to rehash this. But Pfizer and Moderna pushed articles for months in the original study that their bullshit which now fucks people up was stopping people from even catching it. Then the percentages dropped in follow on studies and articles. Then they said it prevented transmission. Oh and then it switched to the boosters would protect you. Remember the CDC was changing the definition of what "fully vaccinated" meant.

And you know what I said on the board in this very thread...this is a viral infection, you cannot stop it, treat it like the flu. Also I said the traditional approval period for the FDA is 5 years...and we had an EUA in six months? I remember Mark Cuban would go on any platform and tout the bullshit for Pfizer and be their shill and say well with this new technology we can create boosters in a few weeks and mass produce them. Hate to break it to all the turds out there...but the 20th booster you just had is the same as the first shot.

And guess what, today, TODAY. The CDC states that your vaccination schedule is no longer a control status. So the difference between you and someone who is unvaccinated is a fat 0. By the way, I'm I got the shot, and then a second one, thank god I chose J&J. Also...I came down with it confirmed in July, might have had it sooner, not sure. But in the fall of 2020 my fiancee went to see her esthetician who was symptomatic and was breathed on for 90 minutes...and didn't get infected. So...virus gonna virus and the vaccine pushers all need to commit sepuku. We destroyed our country, and for what? So Fauci can stand there and not take responsibility?

ETA: If you think the government has your best health interests at heart, please read this: Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia

 

[Marauder06]

Ummmmm

 

[pardus]

1, My big issue is that we just accept ridiculously unfounded counter factual as as some sort of proof re: covid and vaccines. “I got the disease they told me I wouldn’t get if I got the vaccine; but I’m thankful, because it could have been much worse.”

2, No, that’s a lie. Or a damned lie. There is no way to even research that- what control group are you going to use? A group that wasn’t vaccinated, got covid, then that group gets in a Time Machine, goes back, gets vaccinated, and you compare morbidity and mortality?

3, Comparing unvaccinated individuals wholesale to vaccinated people wholesale gives you about as much information about the efficacy of the vaccine as their astrological sign. And people I perceive to be smart say it. It’s maddening. It’s willingness to parrot an ideological belief at the expense of your intellectual integrity.

4, VAERS currently has hundreds of thousands of adverse affects, to include deaths. I think we can agree that *some number* of people were injured by this vaccine. Whitewashing those numbers saying, “But so many more would have died!” Is immoral and unethical. And I won’t tolerate it in my presence.

5, @pardus this is a great ‘starting block’ to just at least start asking questions. To your direct question about methods used long ago; I thought the exact same thing. “I get it, their initial hypothesis wasn’t correct but they had to revisit, yeah?” I still haven’t gotten a sufficient answer to that question. Not even a partially adequate one.

6, I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

OK that's a lot! So I've been looking at everything you sent for way longer than I wanted lol and I'm going to answer each paragraph individually.

1, Anyone with any medical knowledge should understand that a virus like this was not going to be stopped by some absolute magical shield of a vaccine, the uneducated who were told that were lied to and that is beyond fucked up IMO, honestly I think that's likely if not absolutely a criminal act and should be treated as such.
2, you can see by the post I added above from TX that the unvaccinated died at a significantly higher rate that the vaccinated.
3, see 2 above ^
4, Honestly I can't really comment on that too much because I haven't looked into it, but yeah some vaccines harm/kill people, but that rate compared to the disease is meaningless, you're probably going to die in a car accident rather than a vaccine reaction so...
5, Dude, that is a bunch of religious fanatics who are preaching about the "end of days" and Jesus's second coming already being here, as well as the numerology of the terror attacks on 9/11 being proof of a conspiracy etc... Utter nonsense from fools who believe in imaginary friends, science is evidence, not faith.
6, You probably aren't now lol

Listen, I've always railed against conspiracy theory's and theorist's, and I think justifiably, however from what I've seen the politician's and the media do over the last decade or two I 100% believe there is some top level, rich, manipulating evil people in charge who are forcing/coercing people to their will for personal gain and profit, and it pains me to say that because I have given a lot of me to keep that status quo over the course of my lifetime.
I believe that we need to recognize the difference between true bullshit from just not accepting/understanding/liking something. Whenever you put religion and science together you are going to end up with a shit sandwich, because blind faith vs science will never gel, science is ever evolving, faith is fixed to a stone aged book or three, how can it? I'm not here trying to argue about religion but dude you have a medical (scientific) licence, they don't gel. I personally watched one of my ER Dr's talking to an NP, he said, "I just trust that Jesus will guide me in my diagnosis" to which she agreed, I was flabbergasted, didn't you go to medical school!? A science school!? Why did you need training if Jesus was going to make your decisions for you!? Just ridiculous IMO. Everyone has and should have their right think think and do whatever the fuck they like, as long as they don't affect anyone else. Take the vaccine if you want, don't take it if you don't want, you should have free choice, but I'm sick of the lies and the bullshit that is surrounding this issue, on both sides. Everyone sucks, I hope most people die, not excluding me.
Peace Bitches, I'm going to watch some cat videos.

 

[pardus]

This might be a non-sequitur, but I'll say again. Gastroenteritis almost killed me. Covid? I moved my fiancee from Tempe to Dallas in the summer heat with COVID. That shit was nothing.



Mate, I'm not going to rehash this. But Pfizer and Moderna pushed articles for months in the original study that their bullshit which now fucks people up was stopping people from even catching it. Then the percentages dropped in follow on studies and articles. Then they said it prevented transmission. Oh and then it switched to the boosters would protect you. Remember the CDC was changing the definition of what "fully vaccinated" meant.

And you know what I said on the board in this very thread...this is a viral infection, you cannot stop it, treat it like the flu. Also I said the traditional approval period for the FDA is 5 years...and we had an EUA in six months? I remember Mark Cuban would go on any platform and tout the bullshit for Pfizer and be their shill and say well with this new technology we can create boosters in a few weeks and mass produce them. Hate to break it to all the turds out there...but the 20th booster you just had is the same as the first shot.

And guess what, today, TODAY. The CDC states that your vaccination schedule is no longer a control status. So the difference between you and someone who is unvaccinated is a fat 0. By the way, I'm I got the shot, and then a second one, thank god I chose J&J. Also...I came down with it confirmed in July, might have had it sooner, not sure. But in the fall of 2020 my fiancee went to see her esthetician who was symptomatic and was breathed on for 90 minutes...and didn't get infected. So...virus gonna virus and the vaccine pushers all need to commit sepuku. We destroyed our country, and for what? So Fauci can stand there and not take responsibility?

ETA: If you think the government has your best health interests at heart, please read this: Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia

So we agree, we were lied to, the science is science, facts known at a specific point in time, if people choice to manipulate that, it has noting to do with the science/evidence.
The US military took 12? military prisoners during the Spanish Influenza and offered them a pardon if they lived, by trying to infect them with that particular strain of flu, they injected infected lung tissue into their veins, put droplets of infected liquid into their noses, mouths, eyes, had dying patients cough directly into their mouths etc... Not a single one of them contracted the flu, and we don't know why.
As I've said many times already, the mandates were wrong and the lies were wrong but that has noting to do with the science of it all. If people were more educated they couldn't be duped, so...
The govt has done a lot more fucked up medical shit than just the Tuskegee stuff I know, and and sickened and terrified of them for it, they haven't stopped, just changed tactics.

Ummmmm

Faulci is a lying fuck IMO.