Covid-19

I’ll say it again, the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t going to stop everyone getting Covid, and the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t a magic bullet to stop the transmission of Covid.
That is all well documented, I’ve personally posted links on this thread showing this.

Yes there were a LOT of lies spread from politicians and their lackies regarding what the vaccine would do, if you believed the media and politicians then I’m sorry, you were lied to, but spreading word about the vaccine “not working” is misleading, it’s fake news.
The reason why we locked down and to a lesser degree developed the vaccine was to not overwhelm the hospital system. The covid vaccine should be thought of like the flu vaccine, it will help you to not get sick from Covid, and if you do get sick, it will be less severe than if you’re unvaccinated, and if you’re not as sick your chances of transmitting the virus are less. There’s no magic wand, stop listening to the talking heads on TV and do some research (from valid sources) on your own.
MEDCRAM posted excellent videos on the pandemic since the first month of the pandemic which helped me immensely while I was working in an ER through the worst of it all and then running a Covid isolation facility for the military.
"The medical community," as represented in the US by Dr. Anthony Fauci, was the primary proponent of the erroneous information.

The vaccine, as was pitched to us by the medical and political communities, and people across the Internet, did not work as advertised. That's not fake news, that's fact.

If you are encouraging people to do their own research, I have two case studies: myself, and my father. Both of us were fully vax'd, both of us got COVID. My father almost died. It's entirely possible that getting the vax kept my father from dying, but I'm skeptical. There is correlation there, but no evidence of causation. Even understanding that "the plural of anecdote is not data," I know what I was told--what we were all told--about the vaccine, and that information was wrong. Period.

There are also numerous examples of potential long-term negative health effects for the current COVID vax. Again, we know it doesn't keep people from getting or spreading COVID, we know it's affecting recruiting and retention, and we know it could have severe negative long term health effects. I do not think that the current vax's downsides outweigh the good.

Whatever the initial reasons for the lockdown and mask mandate ("2 weeks to flatten the curve"), they remained in place because they were politically expedient. And they were flatly ignored when it was politically expedient. (BLM riots, celebrity performances, etc.).

I was in the Army when we were required to get the anthrax vax. The negative aspects of it outweighed the positives, and it was eventually discontinued, but not before it negatively affected many Soldiers' lives. it's time for the COVID vax to go the way of anthrax.
 
Neither, I think, but I have to rescind part of what I said, because I did a search and realized the CDC itself did claim in 2021 that preliminary evidence suggested the vaccine could possibly prevent transmission, and then redacted their suggestion as more evidence came in that did not support their claim. In fact, other scientists were more wary about producing a news report based on that emerging evidence just to be safe, and their caution aged better than the CDC's.

As to @Marauder06's question, I'm referring to the international medical community's consensus about vaccines' effectiveness in reducing severe hospitalizations and fatalities from COVID-19, based on months of peer-reviewed research. That changes none of the points you make about a federal medical organization's willingness to push out misleading early suggestions to encourage more people to follow their suggestions.
Honk! silly goose!
I’ll say it again, the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t going to stop everyone getting Covid, and the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t a magic bullet to stop the transmission of Covid.
That is all well documented, I’ve personally posted links on this thread showing this.

Yes there were a LOT of lies spread from politicians and their lackies regarding what the vaccine would do, if you believed the media and politicians then I’m sorry, you were lied to, but spreading word about the vaccine “not working” is misleading, it’s fake news.
The reason why we locked down and to a lesser degree developed the vaccine was to not overwhelm the hospital system. The covid vaccine should be thought of like the flu vaccine, it will help you to not get sick from Covid, and if you do get sick, it will be less severe than if you’re unvaccinated, and if you’re not as sick your chances of transmitting the virus are less. There’s no magic wand, stop listening to the talking heads on TV and do some research (from valid sources) on your own.
MEDCRAM posted excellent videos on the pandemic since the first month of the pandemic which helped me immensely while I was working in an ER through the worst of it all and then running a Covid isolation facility for the military.
Honk honk! Double silly gooses! So is the research Lock did wrong? Can you both get on the same page, please?

Two silly geese! Fellas, this is gaslighting, and retconning. Do better.
 
I am not sure what "severe hospitalization" is. But I will say the target audience for whom it was assumed to prevent hospitalization (and death) is not the target audience whom the the military tries to recruit.

Edited to add, if we want to play the game of command decisions with regard to stupid health policies, I can play that game all. Damn. Day. They frequently make medical and health decisions based on zero evidence and nothing more than "because I say so."
 
https://www.news.com.au/technology/...n/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18

If we are gonna move the goal posts or play no true Scotsman (in this case, I think it's "no true Kiwi?") I guess I will play the "post a link game".

Pfizer said it. The CDC said it. Fauci said it- and HE IS THE SCIENCE.

Dr. Robert Malone said the opposite and was deplatformed and had his character assassinated. Those are the facts. I don't know what overwhelming scientific majority anyone here is referring to, but it's nonsense. It does not exist. It's a Fugazzi.
 
I am not sure what "severe hospitalization" is. But I will say the target audience for whom it was assumed to prevent hospitalization (and death) is not the target audience whom the the military tries to recruit.

Edited to add, if we want to play the game of command decisions with regard to stupid health policies, I can play that game all. Damn. Day. They frequently make medical and health decisions based on zero evidence and nothing more than "because I say so."
If I'm being honest, I made plenty of mistakes as a leader/commander during my time in uniform. But I like to think that when my facts or assumptions changed, my opinion and directives changed as well.

At the beginning, it made sense to me to get the vaccine and wear a mask. I believed what we were being told, because why would they lie? And there was plenty of precedence for vaccines, and vaccine mandates, and I know from the gas chamber training that masks can work.

What was especially convincing to me is that the people who were making us get the vaccines and shelter indoors and wear masks were living under the same conditions.

It made sense... at the beginning.

But then things started not making sense, and other, contradictory evidence began to emerge. And then we found out that our rules, were not their rules.

Even if we assume "best intentions" in the early years of the pandemic, the facts and assumptions are different now than they were when the pandemic started. It's time to re-evaluate our decisions and directives.
 
"The medical community," as represented in the US by Dr. Anthony Fauci, was the primary proponent of the erroneous information.

The vaccine, as was pitched to us by the medical and political communities, and people across the Internet, did not work as advertised. That's not fake news, that's fact.

If you are encouraging people to do their own research, I have two case studies: myself, and my father. Both of us were fully vax'd, both of us got COVID. My father almost died. It's entirely possible that getting the vax kept my father from dying, but I'm skeptical. There is correlation there, but no evidence of causation. Even understanding that "the plural of anecdote is not data," I know what I was told--what we were all told--about the vaccine, and that information was wrong. Period.

There are also numerous examples of potential long-term negative health effects for the current COVID vax. Again, we know it doesn't keep people from getting or spreading COVID, we know it's affecting recruiting and retention, and we know it could have severe negative long term health effects. I do not think that the current vax's downsides outweigh the good.

Whatever the initial reasons for the lockdown and mask mandate ("2 weeks to flatten the curve"), they remained in place because they were politically expedient. And they were flatly ignored when it was politically expedient. (BLM riots, celebrity performances, etc.).

I was in the Army when we were required to get the anthrax vax. The negative aspects of it outweighed the positives, and it was eventually discontinued, but not before it negatively affected many Soldiers' lives. it's time for the COVID vax to go the way of anthrax.
Fauci is head of NIAID and is on the Corona virus task force, I don't think it is fair to say he represents "the medical community", but as the number one talking head of the coronavirus task force I can see why most people would think that. That said, yes he gave false information to the public and should be held accountable for that IMHO.
The fake news is what they were saying, like I said, people need to stop listening to the talking heads on the TV, act like sheep and you'll get treated like one.
You and your father's experiences are not a study, they are experiences. I'd say the chances of your father dying would have been greatly increased if he hadn't been vaccinated. Again, people need to stop taking what you are told by politicians and media etc... at face value.
I'm not up to speed on the side effects except that getting covid while unvaccinated is worse.
Agreed with the lockdowns, a massive and uncalled for violation of people's lives.
My last anthrax shot in the Army was about 2 years ago, so i'm not sure what to stay about that. No the covid vaccine should not be stopped, that would be foolish and detrimental to the Military and the nation's security, it should however be placed in the same category as the flu vaccine.
Honk! silly goose!

Honk honk! Double silly gooses! So is the research Lock did wrong? Can you both get on the same page, please?

Two silly geese! Fellas, this is gaslighting, and retconning. Do better.
I don't know what you're saying here.
 
So these links are probably all over my posts in this thread...but I'll bring them back out since the liberal media has them hidden and unsearchable on the liberal search engine of the google...I remember when google was powerful AF and you could find what you were looking for.

Pfizer says vaccine will prevent infection 90% of the time...https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/covid-vaccine-pfizer-drug-is-more-than-90percent-effective-in-preventing-infection.html

They did this a few times until it got to 60% and then they pivoted to say it prevented transmission...even though at the time they didn't actually know that

Pfizer admits it did not know its Covid vaccine prevented transmission of virus when rollout began

Then they said it would prevent asymptomatic infection...whatever the heck that meant

Pfizer/BioNTech say COVID-19 vaccine likely to prevent asymptomatic infection

But what we found was that people who were vaccinated had insanely high viral loads...

CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary

Not a great article but you get the point.

However, you keep voting the way you want San Francisco and the rest of us will get screwed massively.
 
I don't know what you're saying here.
Oh, I am mocking you for being a silly goose. People usually take mocking a little less personally (as opposed to leveling some hyperbolic and condescending word salad about your biases, fallacies, facts to the otherwise, etc) when you frame it as a grade school taunt. Spoonful of sugar and all that. Here-

What you're saying is demonstrably false. Trying to pretend that "these vaccines prevent transmission" wasn't the case in practice (the overwhelming majority of doctors, scientists, politicians, talking heads, late night hosts, military officials, CDC directors, billionaires, local neighborhood Karens, internet experts, blue checked Twitteratti's) is ridiculous.

I am saying- stop it. You're not fooling anyone, and doubling down is making it worse.
 
My last anthrax shot in the Army was about 2 years ago, so i'm not sure what to stay about that. No the covid vaccine should not be stopped, that would be foolish and detrimental to the Military and the nation's security, it should however be placed in the same category as the flu vaccine.

Our anthrax was 20 something years ago. I finished the series, but then they stopped it. It had issues.

I am not sure that stopping the covid vax is detrimental to national security given what we know about it. In fact, given what we DO know about the side effects, I think there can be an argument that continuing it without supporting data could be detrimental to national security.

Ironic that you mention the flu shot, which has about (depending on year) a 20%-50% efficacy rate. This year may be a bit better with the quadrivalent vaccine, but we won't know those numbers for a while.

One of the things that drives me batshit crazy is the typical military bullshit of "one size fits none," and instead of looking at the vaccine (ANY vaccine) through the lens of risk : benefit with specific populations or people, they want to go for broke by making it mandatory with a population (i.e., everyone) regardless of the knowledge that the military population (18-38) is the the healthiest segment of the US population with the least risk of long-term sequalae or morbidity.
 
https://www.news.com.au/technology/...n/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18

If we are gonna move the goal posts or play no true Scotsman (in this case, I think it's "no true Kiwi?") I guess I will play the "post a link game".

Pfizer said it. The CDC said it. Fauci said it- and HE IS THE SCIENCE.

Dr. Robert Malone said the opposite and was deplatformed and had his character assassinated. Those are the facts. I don't know what overwhelming scientific majority anyone here is referring to, but it's nonsense. It does not exist. It's a Fugazzi.
Posting nonsense news articles don't help, this is what I've been trying to tell people, stop accepting what every journalist/politician tells you! Primary source studies/material is what people need to look at.
I agree 100% that orgs/people like the CDC (and I don't know what they said exactly) or Facui need to be held to a higher standard, I've only ever heard pfizer say they never tested it for transmission. As I stated earlier in this thread, the medical community knew in 2020 that the vaccine was not tested for transmission.
People also don't understand medical terminology/speak and the way that affects what is said/means. I saw this with Fauci while in front of the Senate, they weren't asking the right questions and not specifically enough, Fauci used that to his advantage.
Oh, I am mocking you for being a silly goose. People usually take mocking a little less personally (as opposed to leveling some hyperbolic and condescending word salad about your biases, fallacies, facts to the otherwise, etc) when you frame it as a grade school taunt. Spoonful of sugar and all that. Here-

What you're saying is demonstrably false. Trying to pretend that "these vaccines prevent transmission" wasn't the case in practice (the overwhelming majority of doctors, scientists, politicians, talking heads, late night hosts, military officials, CDC directors, billionaires, local neighborhood Karens, internet experts, blue checked Twitteratti's) is ridiculous.

I am saying- stop it. You're not fooling anyone, and doubling down is making it worse.

Dude, I don't even know what to say to you, I haven't been taking this personally, but It's exasperating for sure. I've posted nothing but verifiable fact or what I genuinely believe is true to the best of my knowledge.
You don't get to tell me to stop anything, so there's that.
I don't give a shit what anyone believes or doesn't, I worked through the pandemic, I know a little bit about it, and I see people saying things that simply aren't true, which doesn't mean it's malicious.
To me this is just another example of fucked up American politics, one sides says one thing so the other side takes up the opposite view and will die on that hill. Sad and predictable.
I'm angry about the Covid nonsense too, but spreading falsehoods about it doesn't do either side any good, regardless of the topic.

Our anthrax was 20 something years ago. I finished the series, but then they stopped it. It had issues.

I am not sure that stopping the covid vax is detrimental to national security given what we know about it. In fact, given what we DO know about the side effects, I think there can be an argument that continuing it without supporting data could be detrimental to national security.

Ironic that you mention the flu shot, which has about (depending on year) a 20%-50% efficacy rate. This year may be a bit better with the quadrivalent vaccine, but we won't know those numbers for a while.

One of the things that drives me batshit crazy is the typical military bullshit of "one size fits none," and instead of looking at the vaccine (ANY vaccine) through the lens of risk : benefit with specific populations or people, they want to go for broke by making it mandatory with a population (i.e., everyone) regardless of the knowledge that the military population (18-38) is the the healthiest segment of the US population with the least risk of long-term sequalae or morbidity.
Interesting about Anthrax, my first shot was in 2011 I believe, last in about 2020, a series of 5 shots, I wonder if it's a new vaccine?
 
This isn't just an isolated American problem. The narrative was the same, hence worldwide "othering" of unvaccinated. I'm honestly shocked that more unvaccinated weren't rounded up and put in "concentration camps". Oh wait... looking at you, Australia and Canada.

Given the majority of the lifelong member's the Church of Covidiots, are still wearing cloth masks made out of old t-shirts and bleaching everything before they go in their house. Yes, they still exist. I saw some idiot a few weeks ago in the Wal-Mart parking lot, n95, plus medical mask and cloth mask over top of it. Spray bottle in gloved hands, "disinfecting" the groceries before being put in their car. Kept their personalized "hazmat" suit on and drove away, alone in their car. It doesn't matter who said it or if the science was resolved or not. It was said, they still believe it and won't accept any changes to the science.

Articles like these are a big part of the problem, yes they don't say 100% stop spread but the masses don't see that. Also, the fact that it took so long for the scientific community to correct misinformation, speaks volumes. There's still silence among the majority.

@pardus no offense, I have the utmost respect for you and what you did during the pandemic. But because you knew the actual science, means absolutely shit when very powerful and influential assholes were spouting bullshit to divide and guilt trip people into taking a shit vaccine. They are still pushing it.

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

Yes, vaccines block most transmission of COVID-19
 
Posting nonsense news articles don't help, this is what I've been trying to tell people, stop accepting what every journalist/politician tells you! Primary source studies/material is what people need to look at.
I agree 100% that orgs/people like the CDC (and I don't know what they said exactly) or Facui need to be held to a higher standard, I've only ever heard pfizer say they never tested it for transmission. As I stated earlier in this thread, the medical community knew in 2020 that the vaccine was not tested for transmission.
People also don't understand medical terminology/speak and the way that affects what is said/means. I saw this with Fauci while in front of the Senate, they weren't asking the right questions and not specifically enough, Fauci used that to his advantage.


Dude, I don't even know what to say to you, I haven't been taking this personally, but It's exasperating for sure. I've posted nothing but verifiable fact or what I genuinely believe is true to the best of my knowledge.
You don't get to tell me to stop anything, so there's that.
I don't give a shit what anyone believes or doesn't, I worked through the pandemic, I know a little bit about it, and I see people saying things that simply aren't true, which doesn't mean it's malicious.
To me this is just another example of fucked up American politics, one sides says one thing so the other side takes up the opposite view and will die on that hill. Sad and predictable.
I'm angry about the Covid nonsense too, but spreading falsehoods about it doesn't do either side any good, regardless of the topic.


Interesting about Anthrax, my first shot was in 2011 I believe, last in about 2020, a series of 5 shots, I wonder if it's a new vaccine?
To your bolded- those are two different things. I think you've lost the thread as to which is which. And, like you, I am under no expectation to let it happen without impunity. It was more a "Hey, dude, regardless of how you may feel, this isn't a good look." You can continue to do whatever you'd like, but that doesn't mean your opinion is gospel. In this case, it's not even correct.
 
So these links are probably all over my posts in this thread...but I'll bring them back out since the liberal media has them hidden and unsearchable on the liberal search engine of the google...I remember when google was powerful AF and you could find what you were looking for.

I had a similar thought a little while ago. I Googled "CDC originally said that COVID vaccine is 100% effective" and the top results are... CDC and Pfizer. That could simply be based on popularity, or it could be an algorithm to steer people away from "misinformation" of the type I was looking for. I don't know. It's a shame that we live in a time where companies, governments, and individuals give us good reason to suspect malfeasance in just about everything.

I also remember when it seemed that anything COVID-19 related that got posted to Facebook got slapped with a warning/info message, and that anything that the power structure didn't like got you throttled or booted completely. Good times.

Here is an excerpt from an article on why the anthrax vax was paused in 2004:
A US federal judge has ordered the Department of Defense to halt compulsory anthrax vaccination of soldiers, saying that the Food and Drug Administration violated its own rules by failing to seek public comment before approving the vaccine.

The Pentagon began a programme to inoculate 2.4 million troops in 1998, and so far 1.2 million have received the shot. But more than 500 members of the armed forces have been disciplined or court-martialled for refusing it. One soldier received a seven month prison sentence.

Six unnamed military personnel sued the Pentagon, charging that the vaccine's approval had not met legal requirements and was therefore an investigational drug requiring informed consent.

Judge Emmet Sullivan of the district court in Washington agreed, saying: “Congress has prohibited the administration of investigational drugs to service members without their consent. This court will not permit the government to circumvent this requirement.”

He also questioned the vaccine's efficacy,..
"Investigational." "Informed consent." "Disciplined for not doing it. "Questionable efficacy." Does that sound like... I don't know... any other required vaccinations?
 
Neither, I think, but I have to rescind part of what I said, because I did a search and realized the CDC itself did claim in 2021 that preliminary evidence suggested the vaccine could possibly prevent transmission, and then redacted their suggestion as more evidence came in that did not support their claim. In fact, other scientists were more wary about producing a news report based on that emerging evidence just to be safe, and their caution aged better than the CDC's.

As to @Marauder06's question, I'm referring to the international medical community's consensus about vaccines' effectiveness in reducing severe hospitalizations and fatalities from COVID-19, based on months of peer-reviewed research. That changes none of the points you make about a federal medical organization's willingness to push out misleading early suggestions to encourage more people to follow their suggestions.
Honk! silly goose!
Late to the game, but I downvoted this part of your post to make this point:

When someone takes a step back, reevaluates their comments, and then highlights and admits where they were incorrect, using that admission to continue to call them names doesn't encourage a healthy discussion.
 
Late to the game, but I downvoted this part of your post to make this point:

When someone takes a step back, reevaluates their comments, and then highlights and admits where they were incorrect, using that admission to continue to call them names doesn't encourage a healthy discussion.
Meh. Get better ideas and we can avoid this situation next time. Downvote all you'd like, I've seen what makes you cheer.
 
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