Covid-19

[GOTWA]

Myocarditis is not a lie. Coming from someone who got a booster, I will not have any more COVID shots.



The tingly feeling in my chest the next day after the booster was enough to make me tap...

So I'm kind of a rare case here. I got the first shot Jan 17th 2021 and my second shot mid August 2021. I had the second shot chills for a couple hours, but sweat it off. The next day we had a BN fun day which rightfully started with a monster. I had to tap out of volleyball because I thought my heart was going to explode. I was legit fucked up.

 

[RackMaster]

This isn't a shocker to most of us. Myocarditis highest in young men, post vaccination.

 

[Devildoc]

On another forum I am starting to catch some flack from the "it must be the vaccine" folks because I said that "it must have been aliens," and that they have to prove me wrong.

 

[Devildoc]

For the love of Pete. This is what I am dealing with:



I also said that I would consider that he went into cardiac arrest as a result of Professor Plum in the library with a candlestick. That didn't go over too well. People thought I was mocking them.

 

[DA SWO]

On another forum I am starting to catch some flack from the "it must be the vaccine" folks because I said that "it must have been aliens," and that they have to prove me wrong.

Asking if the vax contributed is a valid question.

 

[TLDR20]

Asking if the vax contributed is a valid question.

Why?

 

[Devildoc]

Asking if the vax contributed is a valid question.

The challenge is, the causal effect: he was struck in the chest, he went down. The articles I read about athletes dropping on the field as it relates to the vax suggest in the midst of play they grab their chest, have concomitant respiratory issues, then collapse.

Is asking about vax valid? Sure. But given how he went down also low probability.

 

[amlove21]

Why?

So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?"

Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss.

Is it 100% too early to say what this was? Absolutely, in all regards. It's just as equally silly to say "we know" it was commotio cordis as it is to say it was a heretofore undetected congenital cardiac myopathy, right? Right.

Is it wrong to immediately pop off with, "IT WAS THE FAUCI OUCHIE!" while some dude is fighting for his life (thereby politicizing this event in a really, really cynical way)? Yeah, I think that's in really poor taste, but it's no more likely or unlikely with what we know right this second.

Completely eliminating the vaccine as some sort of possibility when we've seen professional athletes and otherwise healthy young males dying (and presenting cardiomyopathies that just idiopathetically appeared out of nowhere) at a historic clip since 2021 is just as politically motivated and irresponsible. Didn't we have a talk in this thread about the numerous studies about post-vaccine cardiomyopathy? Aren't we past the, "It's a conspiracy theory to even say that" and on to, "Ok, maybe that's possible?" We have several people here on the board that have reported vaccine injury and this anecdotal and empiracal evidence is in line with the studies that are emerging now as the test subjects, the population, are starting to present. We didn't have the cohort of information becasue the studies weren't done and this is a fact.

If we want to discuss all possibilities, cool, let's discuss them all.

If you want to follow a distuubing hashtag on IG or Twitter, check out #DiedSuddenly. Fom Dr. Simone Gold- "From 2021 to present, 1101 athletes died from cardiac arrest. Over the prior 38 years (1966-2004), 1101 athletes under the age of 35 died due to various heart conditions. The same number of athletes died in the last two years as compared to the prior 38."

Yes, I am aware that there are numerous "fact checks" on statistics like these, so for the sake of discussion, I will cut the number in half (the 2021-present number)- which is ridiculous, given the fact that we have watched professional soccer players, marathon runners, and healthy young 16 year old hockey players die of strokes and heart attacks all with one notable similarity. News producer, 37, dies suddenly. 18 year old, previously healthy, dies suddenly. It's quite literally all over the news and easy to find and correlate.

That's still more deaths in healthy athletes in 1.2 years than in the last 20 years- wonder what that number looks like in regular American population with co-morbidities?

Science and intellectual discussion is ruling in and ruling out likely causes when appropriate facts are considered. Science is *not* immediately discounting what could be a very valid hypothesis because you don't feel like dealing with it or you're biased against it's outocme.

As I said- I hope that young man survives. No matter what happened, it's tragic and he's 24- and by all attempts, a good human.

 

[Marauder06]

Science and intellectual discussion is ruling in and ruling out likely causes when appropriate facts are considered. Science is *not* immediately discounting what could be a very valid hypothesis because you don't feel like dealing with it or you're biased against its outcome.

Yep. See also "Wuhan virus lab origin," "COVID vaccine efficacy," and "Hunter Biden laptop is real," among many other things.

 

[Devildoc]

So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?"

Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss.

Is it 100% too early to say what this was? Absolutely, in all regards. It's just as equally silly to say "we know" it was commotio cordis as it is to say it was a heretofore undetected congenital cardiac myopathy, right? Right.

Is it wrong to immediately pop off with, "IT WAS THE FAUCI OUCHIE!" while some dude is fighting for his life (thereby politicizing this event in a really, really cynical way)? Yeah, I think that's in really poor taste, but it's no more likely or unlikely with what we know right this second.

Completely eliminating the vaccine as some sort of possibility when we've seen professional athletes and otherwise healthy young males dying (and presenting cardiomyopathies that just idiopathetically appeared out of nowhere) at a historic clip since 2021 is just as politically motivated and irresponsible. Didn't we have a talk in this thread about the numerous studies about post-vaccine cardiomyopathy? Aren't we past the, "It's a conspiracy theory to even say that" and on to, "Ok, maybe that's possible?" We have several people here on the board that have reported vaccine injury and this anecdotal and empiracal evidence is in line with the studies that are emerging now as the test subjects, the population, are starting to present. We didn't have the cohort of information becasue the studies weren't done and this is a fact.

If we want to discuss all possibilities, cool, let's discuss them all.

If you want to follow a distuubing hashtag on IG or Twitter, check out #DiedSuddenly. Fom Dr. Simone Gold- "From 2021 to present, 1101 athletes died from cardiac arrest. Over the prior 38 years (1966-2004), 1101 athletes under the age of 35 died due to various heart conditions. The same number of athletes died in the last two years as compared to the prior 38."

Yes, I am aware that there are numerous "fact checks" on statistics like these, so for the sake of discussion, I will cut the number in half (the 2021-present number)- which is ridiculous, given the fact that we have watched professional soccer players, marathon runners, and healthy young 16 year old hockey players die of strokes and heart attacks all with one notable similarity. News producer, 37, dies suddenly. 18 year old, previously healthy, dies suddenly. It's quite literally all over the news and easy to find and correlate.

That's still more deaths in healthy athletes in 1.2 years than in the last 20 years- wonder what that number looks like in regular American population with co-morbidities?

Science and intellectual discussion is ruling in and ruling out likely causes when appropriate facts are considered. Science is *not* immediately discounting what could be a very valid hypothesis because you don't feel like dealing with it or you're biased against it's outocme.

As I said- I hope that young man survives. No matter what happened, it's tragic and he's 24- and by all attempts, a good human.

As always, unemotional and eloquent.

Here is my argument for CC opposed to cardiomyopathy/MI/PE or vax-related event (which, according to the media, result in cardiomyopathy/MY/PE related arrests). If you look at the data/media on players who have collapsed on the field, most of them (because I have not read anything that suggests anything about all of them) have a pre-collapse cluster of symptoms: clutching their chest, chest pain, respiratory distress, occurring irrespective of what they were doing: they were fine, had symptoms, collapsed. What I don't know: were any successfully resuscitated? What was the presenting dysrhythmia?

In this case, he appeared to be fine, he was hit, he got up, he collapsed. He was in VF. Everything is classical CC. It did not appear that his route to event followed any of the other athletes who collapsed on the field.

Now, the vaccine. Could the vaccine have created an undiagnosed/underlying condition which made him more susceptible to CC? I don't know that, either. Maybe. Could he have had an non-vax-related underlying condition that made him more susceptible to CC? Maybe.

I don't think it wise to discount any theory; however, we (you, me, all med pro's) work a list of differential diagnoses and rank/triage likeliest culprits. This is what lead me down the DD/triage list to why I think CC is the most likely (until/unless proven otherwise) primary diagnosis.

Anyhoo, my two drachmas (drachmae?).

 

[TLDR20]

So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?"

Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss.

Is it 100% too early to say what this was? Absolutely, in all regards. It's just as equally silly to say "we know" it was commotio cordis as it is to say it was a heretofore undetected congenital cardiac myopathy, right? Right.

Is it wrong to immediately pop off with, "IT WAS THE FAUCI OUCHIE!" while some dude is fighting for his life (thereby politicizing this event in a really, really cynical way)? Yeah, I think that's in really poor taste, but it's no more likely or unlikely with what we know right this second.

Completely eliminating the vaccine as some sort of possibility when we've seen professional athletes and otherwise healthy young males dying (and presenting cardiomyopathies that just idiopathetically appeared out of nowhere) at a historic clip since 2021 is just as politically motivated and irresponsible. Didn't we have a talk in this thread about the numerous studies about post-vaccine cardiomyopathy? Aren't we past the, "It's a conspiracy theory to even say that" and on to, "Ok, maybe that's possible?" We have several people here on the board that have reported vaccine injury and this anecdotal and empiracal evidence is in line with the studies that are emerging now as the test subjects, the population, are starting to present. We didn't have the cohort of information becasue the studies weren't done and this is a fact.

If we want to discuss all possibilities, cool, let's discuss them all.

If you want to follow a distuubing hashtag on IG or Twitter, check out #DiedSuddenly. Fom Dr. Simone Gold- "From 2021 to present, 1101 athletes died from cardiac arrest. Over the prior 38 years (1966-2004), 1101 athletes under the age of 35 died due to various heart conditions. The same number of athletes died in the last two years as compared to the prior 38."

Yes, I am aware that there are numerous "fact checks" on statistics like these, so for the sake of discussion, I will cut the number in half (the 2021-present number)- which is ridiculous, given the fact that we have watched professional soccer players, marathon runners, and healthy young 16 year old hockey players die of strokes and heart attacks all with one notable similarity. News producer, 37, dies suddenly. 18 year old, previously healthy, dies suddenly. It's quite literally all over the news and easy to find and correlate.

That's still more deaths in healthy athletes in 1.2 years than in the last 20 years- wonder what that number looks like in regular American population with co-morbidities?

Science and intellectual discussion is ruling in and ruling out likely causes when appropriate facts are considered. Science is *not* immediately discounting what could be a very valid hypothesis because you don't feel like dealing with it or you're biased against it's outocme.

As I said- I hope that young man survives. No matter what happened, it's tragic and he's 24- and by all attempts, a good human.

We don’t even know if he was vaccinated. It is an absurd position to take to say it was or was not related. Or even speculate on the matter.

It is like at the beginning of the pandemic when people were in car accidents and were reported supposedly as Covid deaths.

I personally like to use my eyes. He was hit in the chest and collapsed soon thereafter. The most common cause is “a”. I don’t go looking for “z” because that is fucking stupid. “a” is bad enough. This is a tragic occurrence but happens often enough that there is a name for it, and it has happened long enough for us to know it is a risk from sports.

 

[amlove21]

We don’t even know if he was vaccinated. It is an absurd position to take to say it was or was not related. Or even speculate on the matter.

It is like at the beginning of the pandemic when people were in car accidents and were reported supposedly as Covid deaths.

I personally like to use my eyes. He was hit in the chest and collapsed soon thereafter. The most common cause is “a”. I don’t go looking for “z” because that is fucking stupid. “a” is bad enough. This is a tragic occurrence but happens often enough that there is a name for it, and it has happened long enough for us to know it is a risk from sports.

The NFL is 95% vaccinated; 94% of Pitt was vaccinated when Hamlin played there. It's pretty reasonable to assume he had at least one vaccination. Since ~1101 athletes that received the vaccination have died in the last 2 years, it's not "fucking stupid" to consider it. At this point, it's no more absurd than watching a pretty innocuous collision of a player that is a professional at taking extreme collisions suffer from a condition that almost always happens to baseball players- because of the lack of shoulder pads in baseball.

Additionally, age group for CC is 4-18, has much more to do with projectile size and impact directly over the heart, and force. R over T phenomenon is wildly uncommon- there has been exactly 1 death in the NFL that can even be roughly attributed to CC.

So, for the 10th time- it's why I would have preferred to wait on this one. But since we have decided we don't wanna wait before calling things "fucking stupid" and this and that, here we are. And nothing in your comment actually disputes what point I was making; it amplifies it. Occam's razor is a useful tool; completely discounting something this early in the process you can't even yourserlf verify isn't useful.

You're freely making a judgement about causation that you feel is likely without all the facts. Or, more accurately, you're eliminating possibilities with the same (or near) statistical value cause you think it's stupid. All I am saying is, "If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander", and if we are gonna talk about an absolutely statistically unlikely condition (commotio cordis that's lethal) vs something that may have a 1 in 800 chance of adverse reactions to include sudden death (the shot)- which one is more likely, again?

As always, unemotional and eloquent.

Now, the vaccine. Could the vaccine have created an undiagnosed/underlying condition which made him more susceptible to CC? I don't know that, either. Maybe. Could he have had an non-vax-related underlying condition that made him more susceptible to CC? Maybe.

I don't think it wise to discount any theory; however, we (you, me, all med pro's) work a list of differential diagnoses and rank/triage likeliest culprits. This is what lead me down the DD/triage list to why I think CC is the most likely (until/unless proven otherwise) primary diagnosis.

Anyhoo, my two drachmas (drachmae?).

Agree with most (definitely not the part about me being eloquent or unemotional).

What about a different possibility- that a new, novel treatment was introduced into a population without any human studies to support it's use? Furthermore, what if that substance, combined with catecholamines- exacerbated previously unforseen damage to the heart and caused sudden, asymptomatic heart attacks, even in young healthy males? Dr. Perter McCullough definitely thinks so. Citing a previous hypothesis about people dying in their sleep and why (in vaccinated individuals)-

"He (Dr. McCullough), added that the reason people die seemingly inexplicably in their sleep is sometimes because of a surge in catecholamines during the end of the sleep cycle. These hormones are released during sleep, just before waking, as a signal to the body and the brain that it is time to get up. They can increase heart rate, blood pressure and breathing rate. ‘If a young person’s heart has been damaged, by an infection, vaccination or for any other reason, the surge of catecholamines can be lethal. This is the reason that people seem to die in their sleep. They’re really dying just before dawn,’ he explained. He also noted that the sudden and unexpected deaths in young people are most likely from undiagnosed or asymptomatic vaccine-induced myocarditis. ‘We have now learned that roughly half or more of cases [of myocarditis] are initially asymptomatic. That means the young people don’t know they have myocarditis,’ McCullough pointed out. ‘So, a scar is being formed in the heart, but they have never been told not to exert themselves and many are involved in athletics and all different types of activities.'”

I don't know if it's probable that this is an explanation- but I think, knowing what we know right this second, it may be possible.

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

I trip over doctors at work. Invariably someone thinks they can help in an emergency and gets in the way. They are usually doctors of paleobotany or xenolinguistics or some such….

Xenolinguistics is a very underappreciated field.

On another forum I am starting to catch some flack from the "it must be the vaccine" folks because I said that "it must have been aliens," and that they have to prove me wrong.

The day this happened I was just hearing about the multiple athlete deaths all over the place and it soon entered my mind. However, CC is part of every year's sports paperwork for my kids. We have a "Lindsay's Law" form to fill out.

Also. Never discount the aliens...

...Is it 100% too early to say what this was? Absolutely, in all regards. It's just as equally silly to say "we know" it was commotio cordis as it is to say it was a heretofore undetected congenital cardiac myopathy, right? Right.

Is it wrong to immediately pop off with, "IT WAS THE FAUCI OUCHIE!" while some dude is fighting for his life (thereby politicizing this event in a really, really cynical way)? Yeah, I think that's in really poor taste, but it's no more likely or unlikely with what we know right this second.

Completely eliminating the vaccine as some sort of possibility when we've seen professional athletes and otherwise healthy young males dying (and presenting cardiomyopathies that just idiopathetically appeared out of nowhere) at a historic clip since 2021 is just as politically motivated and irresponsible. Didn't we have a talk in this thread about the numerous studies about post-vaccine cardiomyopathy? Aren't we past the, "It's a conspiracy theory to even say that" and on to, "Ok, maybe that's possible?" We have several people here on the board that have reported vaccine injury and this anecdotal and empiracal evidence is in line with the studies that are emerging now as the test subjects, the population, are starting to present. We didn't have the cohort of information becasue the studies weren't done and this is a fact...

Other than the . thread, why I like this site so much.

Yep. See also "Wuhan virus lab origin," "COVID vaccine efficacy," and "Hunter Biden laptop is real," among many other things.

From my new Twitter!! :
"What is so special about this laptop that has been handled by 5 billion people. How about the classified docs Trump stole and destroyed. That’s way more important than Hunters penis."

A random take on H. Biden's laptop that may or may not exist.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

 

[Polar Bear]

Blood clot, clot caused by COVID shot

 

[ThunderHorse]

Not surprised. Parents want their kids in school. And public schools tend to be governed by crazy libs.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610984515517693953

 

[Devildoc]

People here still losing their shit over testing positive to COVID despite minimal symptoms.

Pop quiz, hotshot: what's the difference between a cold and COVID? A test. Stop testing. Just. Stop.

 

[RackMaster]

People here still losing their shit over testing positive to COVID despite minimal symptoms.

Pop quiz, hotshot: what's the difference between a cold and COVID? A test. Stop testing. Just. Stop.

Gotta keep the testing industry alive.

 

[JedisonsDad]

Gotta keep the testing industry alive.

In regards to USAF flyers, we need to test so we know if we can go to the doctor or not.

If we are negative, go to the doc and get meds.

If we are positive, stay home and hide that you’re sick, otherwise we get pulled off flight status for about 6 weeks while they do assorted x-rays and other tests.

At least that’s how it was not too long ago.

 

[Marauder06]

So, do I mock or attack someone who wants to present alternate theories or disgnoses? No. Will I call someone obtuse and ignorant who presents an unlikely one at the cost of ignoring the probable ones? Sure. I would do the same for someone whose car ran out of gas, but insists on changing the battery.

Not even close to the same thing. The science of car mechanics is very well-established comparative to what we know about the COVID vaccine. And just because you're out of gas doesn't mean there might also be a problem with your battery.

I don't know what caused this young man's issues and I'm not claiming it's vaccine-related. As I initially said, my first thought was substance. PEDs, illegal drugs, I don't know. Could be hereditary. Could be a super-"stinger" like the one I posted. But at this point everything should be on the table.