Covid-19
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
- Start date
There was an interesting discussion on Joe Rogan's podcast about why Germany seems to be combating this pretty effectively.
I forget the term his guest (Michael Shermer) used, but it the statement was along the lines of:
"German citizens, as a culture, tend to obey more government guidelines, whereas Americans hear beaches are shutting down and say fuck you, it's my right to be on the beach".
IE, we tend to be shitheads who won't stop doing things until it has a punishment attached to it.
ETA: Not that I'm agreeing with governmental overreach or police chasing people for being alone on the beach, but I've seen and heard the dickheads up in Denver and other areas that were throwing parties/raves/bbqs just to say fuck you when the stay at home orders came out.
I forget the term his guest (Michael Shermer) used, but it the statement was along the lines of:
"German citizens, as a culture, tend to obey more government guidelines, whereas Americans hear beaches are shutting down and say fuck you, it's my right to be on the beach".
IE, we tend to be shitheads who won't stop doing things until it has a punishment attached to it.
ETA: Not that I'm agreeing with governmental overreach or police chasing people for being alone on the beach, but I've seen and heard the dickheads up in Denver and other areas that were throwing parties/raves/bbqs just to say fuck you when the stay at home orders came out.
Government guidelines like "round up those people with the yellow stars" or "fire up those ovens"? I'm good with American culture just the way it is. Maybe even a little more liberal.
Not DNC leftist-liberal, like Vermont "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" liberal...
Brill
SOF Support
That same mentality is why we do not speak English. Wait. You know what I mean.
Right, not like we dont have a history of blindly taking Rights away from those the government/authorities dont like in a similar time period.
Strawmen aside; the main point is Americans tend to react to something like these guidelines by explicitly doing what they are asked not to do.
There's dozens of stories of people who organized "pandemic parties" only once stay at home orders were put in place.
It's a drunk girl at a bar who slaps a bouncer, but is somehow mad at him when she gets thrown out.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Not just Germany either, most of the Eastern European countries tend to respond pretty placidly to the government as well, it's simply what they have been used to.
OPERATIONAL IMPLICATIONS
(1) The SARS-CoV-2 virus is highly stable in the natural environment, but it is easily destroyed using standard means of disinfection.
(2) Surgical masks CANNOT be reused if there was any potential for contamination as virus was still viable after 7 days on the outer layer and up to 7 layers on the inner layer!
(3) Hand soap alone does not destroy the virus. While hand soap will remove the virus from the skin, it will not destroy it! Consider following up with a barrier cream or alcohol-based hand sanitizer (be careful to not over-use and cause skin cracking).
DATA
Stability on Surfaces At Room Temperature (22C):
- Tissues: < 3 hr
- Paper: < 3 hr
- Cloth & wood: < 2 days
- Glass: < 4 days
- Steel: < 7 days
- Plastic: < 7 days
- Outer layer of surgical mask: > 7 days (still 0.1% remained)
- Inner layer of surgical mask: < 7 days
Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2
- Bleach (1:49), Bleach (1:99), Ethanol (70%), Providone-Iodine (7.5%), Chloroxylenol (0.05%), Chlorhexidine (0.05%), and Benzalkonium chloride (0.1%): < 5 min
- Hand soap solution (1:49): > 5 min, but < 15 min
REF: Chin et al., Lancet (online 2 April)
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...7uFqs6JOr8Bd_Q-Cmvp3jJMD7XAPmVL5sZyShzLja5uYQ
(1) The SARS-CoV-2 virus is highly stable in the natural environment, but it is easily destroyed using standard means of disinfection.
(2) Surgical masks CANNOT be reused if there was any potential for contamination as virus was still viable after 7 days on the outer layer and up to 7 layers on the inner layer!
(3) Hand soap alone does not destroy the virus. While hand soap will remove the virus from the skin, it will not destroy it! Consider following up with a barrier cream or alcohol-based hand sanitizer (be careful to not over-use and cause skin cracking).
DATA
Stability on Surfaces At Room Temperature (22C):
- Tissues: < 3 hr
- Paper: < 3 hr
- Cloth & wood: < 2 days
- Glass: < 4 days
- Steel: < 7 days
- Plastic: < 7 days
- Outer layer of surgical mask: > 7 days (still 0.1% remained)
- Inner layer of surgical mask: < 7 days
Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2
- Bleach (1:49), Bleach (1:99), Ethanol (70%), Providone-Iodine (7.5%), Chloroxylenol (0.05%), Chlorhexidine (0.05%), and Benzalkonium chloride (0.1%): < 5 min
- Hand soap solution (1:49): > 5 min, but < 15 min
REF: Chin et al., Lancet (online 2 April)
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...7uFqs6JOr8Bd_Q-Cmvp3jJMD7XAPmVL5sZyShzLja5uYQ
Brill
SOF Support
Yep, understood, but if asymtomatic carriers are infecting others it makes good sense not to move around.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Mate, NZ didn't fight a war to kick King George and Parliament off their islands.
Americans are a Free People. I would in fact say the foundations of our government are extremely unique. Telling people they can't be free is ripe with creating problems. We're already seeing companies sell our data to newspapers so they can write articles about how we're not social distancing enough. Or we could do the opposite, and be the gestapo that is SK and use that same data to arrest people.
I will pass on that level of idiocy.
I don't know what that Nurse really thinks she's seeing. We are truly staying home. And because of that our economy will be fucked into smithereens.
New Orleans had a major outbreak due to Mardi Gras, New York had a Major outbreak due to the Chinese New Year Parade and St Patrick's day. I know many people in New Orleans and I also know LEOs in NOLA, people aren't just continuously violating the stay-at-home order. The French Quarter is closed for bidness.
Indeed they are....
Florida173
SOF Support
It's good to see the good come out of this.
Doug Ford joins Haley Wickenheiser to collect PPE for healthcare workers in Toronto
Doug Ford joins Haley Wickenheiser to collect PPE for healthcare workers in Toronto
Mate, we just crossed 20k deaths in under 2 months. The time for “this is not even as bad as a seasonal flu” takes has long passed. Even the CDC estimates over 70k deaths before we’re done with this thing at the low end.
Can we all agree that it's an apples and oranges comparison to use the flu?
The big year everyone is using for flu deaths is 2017-2018 flu season
True, there were about 61K deaths due to influenza, up to a possible 95k.
This is a lot, but there were an estimated 45 million cases that year, with roughly 20.7 million hospital visits.
We're currently at 532K (confirmed) cases, with 21K deaths.
Even if we assume it's like the flu, where roughly half will visit the hospital, that still only puts us at about 1.1-1.2 million exposed.
The big year everyone is using for flu deaths is 2017-2018 flu season
True, there were about 61K deaths due to influenza, up to a possible 95k.
This is a lot, but there were an estimated 45 million cases that year, with roughly 20.7 million hospital visits.
We're currently at 532K (confirmed) cases, with 21K deaths.
Even if we assume it's like the flu, where roughly half will visit the hospital, that still only puts us at about 1.1-1.2 million exposed.
No we didn't but what about Australia, where CQB is from?
Dame
Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2010
- Messages
- 3,367
Agree. This is not the flu. But I do not believe giving up our rights is the cure. It will never be gone. We are self isolating to the point of insanity. Voluntarily. But not forever.
Great post.
This is the crux of the problem, the only way to prevent these people from spreading is via appropriate social distancing.
This is absolutely not the flu, not in scale or scope, certainly not in fatality rate. Comparing it to the flu is a weak argument, which I was initially guilty of.
It is voluntary, and I hope it continues. I don’t hope for my own sake as I am 33, healthy and work out six days a week. I hope it continues for those that are diabetic, have hypertension, asthma, transplants, autoimmune disorders, people who work in grocers, hospitals, and transportation. I hope we continue so our boomer population isn’t decimated. I hope we continue so multiple generations aren’t bankrupted by medical bills they can’t afford.
Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?
