Immigration

[Diamondback 2/2]

That does make a difference. I took @JAB 'a post to mean both legal and illegal immigrants.

Yeah I was talking about legal and illegal, I think pardus is focused on the idea that someone here legal should get a reward for doing it right. I really don’t see it as legal vs illegal; I see it as beneficiary vs non- beneficiary, and I think the line in the sand should be with citizenship.

I still think the legal (right way) process should be fixed, but I just think it all becomes a non-issues when you force people to pay their way, meet the standards or don’t, etc. The system should not be focused on making it stupid hard and overly complicated to be here as a resident, visitor, or in the process of becoming a citizen.

I would go a step even farther and say that most of the social programs in this country shouldn’t even exist…But that’s a whole other topic.

 

[pardus]

@pardus

I guess you and I see it differently. If I decide to go to Mexico for a medical treatment or say cheaper cost of living, I am expected to pay out of pocket for those things. Here in the US, you can receive emergency medical care, food entitlement programs and educational benefits, regardless if you are legal or illegal (which IMHO shouldn’t matter) and I think that should not be the case. I think someone should have to pay for those benefits and not be able to run up a bill and not pay and or leave the country.

Now if someone is legally here, who is working, paying taxes, and being a productive member of whichever community they are living in, they should IMHO become a citizen before being allowed to utilize those benefits. That doesn’t mean I don’t think they should be able to go to schools, or get medical care, etc. It means they should pay out of pocket for it, the same way I would have to if I was in Mexico. Medical insurance and student loans can be made available for legal residents, but again it needs to be made so in a way where people who are here, who are not citizens, do not take advantage of programs that are intended to benefit the general citizenship, without paying/repaying those costs.

I don’t think I am shitting on anyone by stating that someone who is not a citizen of the USA does not deserve the same benefits of someone who is a citizen. I don’t really care what they gave up to come here; I don’t care how awesome they may be in whatever area of social measurement. The fact is that the US gov has a duty bound obligation to take care of it citizenry and has no obligation to non-citizens

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. That policy would screw all green card holders who serve in the US Military, quite a few of which have been killed in this war...

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. That policy would screw all green card holders who serve in the US Military, quite a few of which have been killed in this war...

I get what you are saying about military service, I think service should be automatic citizenship.

 

[pardus]

I get what you are saying about military service, I think service should be automatic citizenship.

Yeah, I agree. It is very easy now to become a citizen once you enlist thanks to Pres Bush. I filled out two easy forms and one month later was sworn in. Shocking considering the hassle I had to get my green card.

 

[JHD]

Of the people I know personally that have immigrated legally, all are upstanding citizens contributing to our society. One of my best friends became involved with an Englishman who was here legally, but was not yet a citizen. Even though they were planning to be married, they didn't marry just for a quick, easy path to citizenship for him. He paid an attorney thousands of dollars to assist in the process of getting to stay here legally once his visa expired.

Amnesty for those that broke the law to get here is not they way to go, I don't think, and is not fair to those who go through the process to legally become citizens. A good start would be enforcing the laws we have on our books, but beyond that, there is no easy, snap-your-fingers, bling-your-head, answers to the issue. Arizona seems to be doing a better job than California addressing some of the issues though.

All that said, though, we need people to immigrate in order to keep the economy going. The US isn't growing fast enough by itself to grow the economy without the infusion. I would just prefer that they be here legally.

 

[pardus]

I spoke with another legal immigrant who told me he was considering starting a class action suit against the federal govt if they give amnesty to the illegals. His point, why did we have to spend thousands of dollars and hassle to come here and those fucks get a free pass? Give us our money back.

 

[DA SWO]

Of the people I know personally that have immigrated legally, all are upstanding citizens contributing to our society. One of my best friends became involved with an Englishman who was here legally, but was not yet a citizen. Even though they were planning to be married, they didn't marry just for a quick, easy path to citizenship for him. He paid an attorney thousands of dollars to assist in the process of getting to stay here legally once his visa expired.

Amnesty for those that broke the law to get here is not they way to go, I don't think, and is not fair to those who go through the process to legally become citizens. A good start would be enforcing the laws we have on our books, but beyond that, there is no easy, snap-your-fingers, bling-your-head, answers to the issue. Arizona seems to be doing a better job than California addressing some of the issues though.

All that said, though, we need people to immigrate in order to keep the economy going. The US isn't growing fast enough by itself to grow the economy without the infusion. I would just prefer that they be here legally.

We need immigrants to fill job vacancies, but we also need to extend unemployment because there are no jobs? I love logic.

 

[JHD]

We need immigrants to fill job vacancies, but we also need to extend unemployment because there are no jobs? I love logic.

Agree with you there. Many immigrants are obviously taking the jobs that are available as some legal unemployed citizens won't because they believe it is beneath them. And maybe those jobs don't pay well enough to keep them in the style to which they have become accustomed.

We also need the dollars immigrants spend here to spur the growth.

 

[BeardedConservative]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...transporting-smuggled-kids-likens-to-furious/

 

[Chopstick]

That child smuggling story makes me think of Elian Gonzalez. I guess if little Elian floated over from Cuba today, he would not be getting sent back.

 

[BloodStripe]

"The moment I act — and it will be taking place between the November election and the end of the year" - Barry Obama

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-action-immigration-not-001446480--politics.html

So he realizes that his actions would cause the Democrat's the election so he's going to do it during a time just before he is out of office. What a fucking coward.

 

[Gypsy]

"

So he realizes that his actions would cause the Democrat's the election so he's going to do it during a time just before he is out of office. What a fucking coward.

Agreed, this is no surprise.

 

[104TN]

"Unnoticed until now, a draft solicitation for bids issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) Oct. 6 says potential vendors must be capable of handling a 'surge' scenario of 9 million id cards in one year 'to support possible future immigration reform initiative requirements.'"

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...y-Prepares-Surge-Of-Millions-Of-Immigrant-IDs

 

[pardus]

"Unnoticed until now, a draft solicitation for bids issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) Oct. 6 says potential vendors must be capable of handling a 'surge' scenario of 9 million id cards in one year 'to support possible future immigration reform initiative requirements.'"

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...y-Prepares-Surge-Of-Millions-Of-Immigrant-IDs

Fucking assholes!

 

[Centermass]

"Unnoticed until now, a draft solicitation for bids issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) Oct. 6 says potential vendors must be capable of handling a 'surge' scenario of 9 million id cards in one year 'to support possible future immigration reform initiative requirements.'"

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...y-Prepares-Surge-Of-Millions-Of-Immigrant-IDs

One word:

More votes.

 

[104TN]

One word:

More votes.

That's two words, but I completely agree.

Even though this pisses me off to no end, you almost have to admire the guile.

This one guy (O) has created such a furor that he all but gifted the Senate majority to the GOP - yet through executive order, he's still going to manage to set his party up to hold the reigns for the foreseeable future.

O promised hope and change, he just didn't say for who.

 

[Florida173]

If the people are already here and are what I would consider a "good consumer," I believe they should be fast tracked at a significantly easier pace.

I have some Brit and Canadian "friends" (stupid periodic reviews) who have technically out-stayed their welcome in the States, but don't really have any family or friends back home to help a transition back. I suppose there is a huge difference with not being able to control the flow of immigration, and having a program that allows for a path to citizenship for people that have already been deemed allowed in through various other programs.

 

[Centermass]

That's two words, but I completely agree.

Just seeing who's on their second cup of coffee and paying attention.

And seeing how Rick is the first member to address this, he wins a prize supplied by Shadowspear.

And what would that be you ask?

After checking with the staff and management here, hold on to your duffers.........

They've agreed to keep your account valid and allow you to continue to post!

 

[Six-Two]

The real travesty to me is the Afghans and Iraqis who worked with NATO forces (primarily as translators) who have to go through six rings of shit to get here - a process that can take up to 4 years, if it happens at all. In the meantime, their families get killed and abducted, and best case, they're forced to spend their life savings to get them out of captivity.

This probably merits its own thread, but I didn't realize til today how INSANELY difficult it is for guys who put their lives on the line in AFG & Iraq, alongside Marines, SF, Seals, etc. to get here. It should not be easier for anyone than those dudes. I get that it's a different situation considering that "Insider Killings" spooked everybody for a few years (and frankly, it's a threat that needs to be considered), but there are different ways to handle that other than 956 pages of paperwork, and 3 year waits during which your family is murdered cause you helped coalition forces.

Oh, and the program is ending at the end of the year.

I personally can't believe the shortsightedness on behalf of State - who the FUCK is gonna translate for us when we're balls deep in ISIS/ISIL ass in a year and need someone to trust us?

There's a full segment on Last Week Tonight that details the problem in about 15 minutes - I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of you.
Anyway, end threadjack!

 

[pardus]

That is so upsetting and angering!