Israel and Iran

I think--as you point out--they were mistakenly thought to be legitimate targets and intentionally hit. Bad intel? Bad decisions? Whatever, it can happen.

Honestly, with all the flack Israel's been taking from the entire world regarding civilian casualties, I doubt very much if they would bring a public relations shitstorm down on themselves by the premeditated annihilation of an aid convoy.
 
"After being presented with, and considering the investigation's findings, the IDF Chief of the General Staff decided that the following command measures will be taken: the brigade fire support commander, an officer with the rank of major, will be dismissed from his position. The brigade chief of staff, an officer with the rank of colonel in reserve, will be dismissed from his position. Additionally, the brigade commander and the 162nd Division commander will be formally reprimanded. The IDF Chief of Staff decided to formally reprimand the commander of the Southern Command for his overall responsibility for the incident."

Source
 
I feel for the families of the fallen aid workers, but I blame the jihads before anybody else.

I have only been on the periphery of anything involving an airstrike before, but the use of air and electronic surveillance can be fooled just like anything else.

Theres 0 reason to believe Israel wants to take out any aid convoys. If the logistics of allowing tons of aid into Palestine without extra rockets and weapons weren't such a complete nightmare then there probably wouldnt be a humanitarian disaster.
 
BlackSmokeRisinG said:
I feel for the families of the fallen aid workers, but I blame the jihads before anybody else.

I have only been on the periphery of anything involving an airstrike before, but the use of air and electronic surveillance can be fooled just like anything else.

Theres 0 reason to believe Israel wants to take out any aid convoys. If the logistics of allowing tons of aid into Palestine without extra rockets and weapons weren't such a complete nightmare then there probably wouldnt be a humanitarian disaster.
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Mentioned in passing here was the possibility of a digital signature of a bad guy in the convoy. Whether this is fact or just speculation is still an open book.
 
CQB said:
Mentioned in passing here was the possibility of a digital signature of a bad guy in the convoy. Whether this is fact or just speculation is still an open book.
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It would serve the interests of Hamas to deceive the Israelis into believing, for instance, that this was an arms shipment—or a HVT— disguised as an aid convoy. If I was in Hamas leadership, I’d use every resource I could to fool my enemy into killing the innocent.
 
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757 said:
"After being presented with, and considering the investigation's findings, the IDF Chief of the General Staff decided that the following command measures will be taken: the brigade fire support commander, an officer with the rank of major, will be dismissed from his position. The brigade chief of staff, an officer with the rank of colonel in reserve, will be dismissed from his position. Additionally, the brigade commander and the 162nd Division commander will be formally reprimanded. The IDF Chief of Staff decided to formally reprimand the commander of the Southern Command for his overall responsibility for the incident."

Source
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Wait, you telling me people get held accountable over there?
 
Gunz said:
It would serve the interests of Hamas to deceive the Israelis into believing, for instance, that this was an arms shipment—or a HVT— disguised as an aid convoy. If I was in Hamas leadership, I’d use every resource I could to fool my enemy into killing the innocent.
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Digital signature of a HVT acting as an interpreter?
 
Israel did Iran dirty last week with that strike on the embassy…precision strike; no other casualties; then to follow with that attack on the food convey last week was sloppy and stupid … really stupid; especially since it was Israel who agreed they could be in the country and coordinated their route.

Iran has been pretty quiet about the embassy thing, but but no chance that they let that go…they will punch back…hard.

Stand by…
 
Gunz said:
I think--as you point out--they were mistakenly thought to be legitimate targets and intentionally hit. Bad intel? Bad decisions? Whatever, it can happen.

Honestly, with all the flack Israel's been taking from the entire world regarding civilian casualties, I doubt very much if they would bring a public relations shitstorm down on themselves by the premeditated annihilation of an aid convoy.
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80/20 rule, right? Sometimes that missing 20% comes back to bite you in the ass.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
Israel did Iran dirty last week with that strike on the embassy…precision strike; no other casualties; then to follow with that attack on the food convey last week was sloppy and stupid … really stupid; especially since it was Israel who agreed they could be in the country and coordinated their route.

Iran has been pretty quiet about the embassy thing, but but no chance that they let that go…they will punch back…hard.

Stand by…
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Apparently there's been a lot of chatter and everyone is on heightened alert in the region for Iran's follow-on shenanigans.
 
Gunz said:
It would serve the interests of Hamas to deceive the Israelis into believing, for instance, that this was an arms shipment—or a HVT— disguised as an aid convoy. If I was in Hamas leadership, I’d use every resource I could to fool my enemy into killing the innocent.
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Hamas does that kind of thing all the time. There are numerous vehicles of them using ambulances (Red Crescent?) as battlefield taxis. Just because someone's wearing a good guy uniform or riding in a good guy vehicle, doesn't mean they are good guys. Combatants using protected noncombatant markings, materials, and buildings is a war crime but Hamas does it with impunity, because they know that Western style democratic governments are uber-concerned with rules, laws, and mitigating collateral damage.

I have no doubt Hamas was using the facility that the convoy was coming from as a base, or a sanctuary, or a food bank. They do that kind of thing all the time. It's also possible that one of the aid workers who got killed was a baddie, or a baddie was in one of the vehicles and they dragged away his body before the news crews showed up.

Or, it was an out and out colossal fuckup.
 
Marauder06 said:
Hamas does that kind of thing all the time. There are numerous vehicles of them using ambulances (Red Crescent?) as battlefield taxis. Just because someone's wearing a good guy uniform or riding in a good guy vehicle, doesn't mean they are good guys. Combatants using protected noncombatant markings, materials, and buildings is a war crime but Hamas does it with impunity, because they know that Western style democratic governments are uber-concerned with rules, laws, and mitigating collateral damage.

I have no doubt Hamas was using the facility that the convoy was coming from as a base, or a sanctuary, or a food bank. They do that kind of thing all the time. It's also possible that one of the aid workers who got killed was a baddie, or a baddie was in one of the vehicles and they dragged away his body before the news crews showed up.

Or, it was an out and out colossal fuckup.
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Yes, sir. Like using mosques for staging areas/HQs etc…or in my experience using Buddhist temples to cache munitions…sanctuaries we’re not permitted to violate. We make it easy for them.
 
Marauder06 said:
Hamas does that kind of thing all the time. There are numerous vehicles of them using ambulances (Red Crescent?) as battlefield taxis. Just because someone's wearing a good guy uniform or riding in a good guy vehicle, doesn't mean they are good guys. Combatants using protected noncombatant markings, materials, and buildings is a war crime but Hamas does it with impunity, because they know that Western style democratic governments are uber-concerned with rules, laws, and mitigating collateral damage.

I have no doubt Hamas was using the facility that the convoy was coming from as a base, or a sanctuary, or a food bank. They do that kind of thing all the time. It's also possible that one of the aid workers who got killed was a baddie, or a baddie was in one of the vehicles and they dragged away his body before the news crews showed up.

Or, it was an out and out colossal fuckup.
Click to expand...

What if, hear me out, we know UN organizations helped Hamas, but what if one or more of these "aid workers" were Hamas sympathizers? They have access to the country, will see things which could benefit Hamas, how do we know they weren't caught by one of the premier SIGINT units on the planet?

I'll say the asshole part out loud: we know liberal, human-centric organizations have a history of empathizing with terrorists. Not just in Gaza, but approximately the whole planet. Someone would really make the argument these aid organizations aren't used by terrorists? Aren't supporting terrorism?

Yeah, nah. The majority of the workers? Sure, they are staying out of the way because they want to help people. Others in those orgs? People are people and people can be shitbags.

I'm a cynical bastard, but I think someone didn't know which vehicle had the Hamas cuck. They knew the convoy was bad, but not which vehicle, so they smoked the whole shebang. The IDF didn't fire these people over optics, they fired them because they didn't do their due diligence.
 
AWP said:
What if, hear me out, we know UN organizations helped Hamas, but what if one or more of these "aid workers" were Hamas sympathizers? They have access to the country, will see things which could benefit Hamas, how do we know they weren't caught by one of the premier SIGINT units on the planet?

I'll say the asshole part out loud: we know liberal, human-centric organizations have a history of empathizing with terrorists. Not just in Gaza, but approximately the whole planet. Someone would really make the argument these aid organizations aren't used by terrorists? Aren't supporting terrorism?

Yeah, nah. The majority of the workers? Sure, they are staying out of the way because they want to help people. Others in those orgs? People are people and people can be shitbags.

I'm a cynical bastard, but I think someone didn't know which vehicle had the Hamas cuck. They knew the convoy was bad, but not which vehicle, so they smoked the whole shebang. The IDF didn't fire these people over optics, they fired them because they didn't do their due diligence.
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Have a bleeding heart? Go to Africa. Being an aid worker in Gaza? I already know what you are.
 
AWP said:
What if, hear me out, we know UN organizations helped Hamas, but what if one or more of these "aid workers" were Hamas sympathizers? They have access to the country, will see things which could benefit Hamas, how do we know they weren't caught by one of the premier SIGINT units on the planet?

I'll say the asshole part out loud: we know liberal, human-centric organizations have a history of empathizing with terrorists. Not just in Gaza, but approximately the whole planet. Someone would really make the argument these aid organizations aren't used by terrorists? Aren't supporting terrorism?

Yeah, nah. The majority of the workers? Sure, they are staying out of the way because they want to help people. Others in those orgs? People are people and people can be shitbags.

I'm a cynical bastard, but I think someone didn't know which vehicle had the Hamas cuck. They knew the convoy was bad, but not which vehicle, so they smoked the whole shebang. The IDF didn't fire these people over optics, they fired them because they didn't do their due diligence.
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Uh... did we forget that those Epstein loving retards botched the SIGINT for the OCT 7th attack? While I'm not going to discount Hamas fuckery, I wouldn't trust Israeli SIGINT of not being fuckups. Both groups have a history of doing fucked up shit for seemingly no reason.

I'm not gonna disagree that liberal groups and liberal human-centric orgs directly and indirectly help terrorists. I do find it odd that some of the biggest proponents and funders for many of these organizations are liberal Jews. It's apparently okay when these liberal orgs help flood countries with criminals or destabilize their populations and govts. If those same orgs then decide to help Israel's foes... they get hellfired. Seems kinda odd.
 
ThunderHorse said:
Have a bleeding heart? Go to Africa. Being an aid worker in Gaza? I already know what you are.
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Bro, Africa is it's own thing. That said, a lotta kids are brainwashed into helping the ME in college or they travel there because it's social media glamorous. Plenty of other groups are also trying to help the Christians and other minorities caught between the Muslims and Jews. Gaza ain't just Sunni Muslims.

IDF refutes claim it targeted sole Catholic church in Gaza after 2 women said killed
 

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