Israel and Iran

Marauder06 said:
Thanks for sharing that interesting video by one of my favorite academics.

I listened to the first 15 minutes or so and will get through the rest the next time I'm in the gym. The part I listened to was good; I expect that the rest is extremely compelling but one-sided, and reflects his complete anti-Israel bias. Having a bias doesn't mean that someone is wrong, it just means that we need to consider that in interpreting their perspectives.

I actually met Dr. Mearsheimer very briefly during one of his visits to West Point a few years ago. I admire his advocacy of the one true International Relations theory--realism--and in particular his book The Tragedy of Great Power Politics. I think his analysis in that book is spot on and offers a great framing to help understand why states do what they do. But:

--his anti-Israel bent goes way back. While his book (co-authored with another prominent IR realist named Stephen Walt) The Israel Lobby has some interesting points but IMO attributes to Israel a whole lot of things that should instead be considered more broadly and in context.

--this is the same guy who said Iran should get nukes, because it... will make them more responsible? ...bring regional stability? Something. North Korea getting nuclear weapons did not make them more responsible, or bring stability to the Korean Peninsula. Pakistan and India getting nukes didn't make them any more collegial. It was a stupid statement, perhaps colored by his deep dislike of Israel, because guess where Iran will use nukes if they get them?
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I'll have to check out The Tragedy of Great Powers, the blurb is on offensive realism does check out. Definitely don't like Iran getting nukes, seems like a bad take. That said, I honestly don't know if the Iranians have the technical experience to cobble one together.

The blurb on the Israel lobby sounds familiar though. Surprised it was written back in 2007. A decade before the Epstein and Pizza Gate leaks and documents came out. If the public had know about these two long running operations I'm curious as to how the books reception would have been like.

Honestly, the more I look at the US relationship with Israel the more they resemble Pakistan; just way worse. It's been eye opening seeing how Judaic influences in our culture are as bad, if not worse, as their Islamic counterparts. The fact that we've been mired in two plus decades of counter insurgencies, while Israel has been influencing the apparatus that botched these campaigns, is mindboggling.
 
Neat example of Judaic influences in American politics. While rich Islamist states try to buy US goodwill by acquiring western military gear, Israel directly operates political campaigns on US soil. Oh and they do this to both parties.

Here they're bragging about punishing Republicans they're trying to buy.
AIPAC Halts Campaign Fundraising for Perry, Other GOP Members Who Voted Against Israel Aid

This article details Israel spending money to dethrone liberal Democrat politicians who are problematic for them.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552

8 min blurb on current operations in Gaza and why the conflict won't be ending anytime soon.
 
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DA SWO said:
Blinken and the now deceased Iranian were discussing how to get Israel's PM voted out of office. Don't bitch about Israel doing it when 81 million voters think it's o.k. for us to do it.
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One thing to note is that the American taxpayer gets no money out of Israel. Not only does Israel rely on us for handouts, they are a perennially misbehaved guest in our nation. They have no business in our system, they don't bleed, fight, or die for it; we do.

As for Blinken, he's a traitor who has prostituted himself to various foreign powers. Same goes for most of the Biden regime. Their behavior is par for the course. These people are traitors, but at least they're American.
 
There's some pretzel logic going on in this thread that I'm trying to wrap my head around. For context let's take these figures:

From Wikipedia: "...between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Muslim terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people..." (Not included, hundreds of attacks prior to 1979.)

"Palestinian political violence has targeted Israelis, Palestinians, Lebanese, Jordanians,[22] Egyptians,[23]Americans[24] and citizens of other countries.[25] Attacks have taken place both within Israel and the Palestinian territories as well as internationally and have been directed at both military and civilian targets. Tactics have included hostage taking, plane hijacking, boat hijacking, stone and improvised weapon throwing, improvised explosive device (IED), knife attacks, shooting sprees, vehicle-ramming attacks, car bombs, suicide attacks, and assassinations."

Who's "misbehavior" should we excuse? Israel's? Or the centuries of slaughter in the name of Allah or Palestine or simple hatred of Jews by everybody including Kings of England? Hitler was a late-comer to the "annihilate the Jews and steal their gold" party. Every swinging dick who had power in Europe or Russia has at one time or another tried to expel or euthanize the Jews.

Collectively, after the Holocaust, in my opinion, the world owed them a trip to their ancestral homeland. It wasn't pretty or neat but it is what it is.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
One thing to note is that the American taxpayer gets no money out of Israel.
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Yes and no.

"Most of the aid—approximately $3.3 billion a year—is provided as grants under the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program, funds that Israel must use to purchase U.S. military equipment and services." -source

Now there is a current provision where they can spend some of that on Israeli defense stuff, but that is set to get phased out...as it should.

In Essence: Tax payer's money->US government->Israel->American workers making American products.

So, you are correct that the Israeli government does not give the US any of their money.
However, American businesses and thus American workers are the primary beneficiaries of our governments aid to Israel.

Call it an exotic redistribution of wealth that funds the M.I.C while providing useful combat data.
 
Oh man is this thing still going on? Wild.

I love both camps now.

“Israel is committing genocide!” Really? It’s a crappy one. They have complete and total military superiority. They could just glass the region and worry about rebuilding. You’re an idiot.

“Israel hates America only *I* am smart enough to see it.” Yeah, gotcha. You and Ye and Dave Smith. Well, some people need killed and they’re doing it and also, you’ve literally never said any of these words your entire life until now because you’re being manipulated by the current thing, just like the other idiots.

I can’t wait until this current thing is over and everyone will be *checks notes* bird flu and voting rights subject matter experts.
 
Some idiot on the x said we had amazing casualty reduction measures that we used in Afghanistan and Iraq, and then criticized Israel. Last I checked we weren't door knocking buildings before dropping rounds to level a building or doing targeted SMS/Whatsapp messages, yeah we did leaflets from time to time.
 
Gunz said:
There's some pretzel logic going on in this thread that I'm trying to wrap my head around. For context let's take these figures:

From Wikipedia: "...between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Muslim terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people..." (Not included, hundreds of attacks prior to 1979.)

"Palestinian political violence has targeted Israelis, Palestinians, Lebanese, Jordanians,[22] Egyptians,[23]Americans[24] and citizens of other countries.[25] Attacks have taken place both within Israel and the Palestinian territories as well as internationally and have been directed at both military and civilian targets. Tactics have included hostage taking, plane hijacking, boat hijacking, stone and improvised weapon throwing, improvised explosive device (IED), knife attacks, shooting sprees, vehicle-ramming attacks, car bombs, suicide attacks, and assassinations."

Who's "misbehavior" should we excuse? Israel's? Or the centuries of slaughter in the name of Allah or Palestine or simple hatred of Jews by everybody including Kings of England? Hitler was a late-comer to the "annihilate the Jews and steal their gold" party. Every swinging dick who had power in Europe or Russia has at one time or another tried to expel or euthanize the Jews.

Collectively, after the Holocaust, in my opinion, the world owed them a trip to their ancestral homeland. It wasn't pretty or neat but it is what it is.
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The misbehavior is a foreign power being ingrained in American politics, at a state and local level, since 1963. For the past 60 years Israel has been fudging the numbers on who does and doesn't get elected. Add in American Bolshevism, attacks on Americans/US personnel, the communist infiltration of academia/media, and lately the sex trafficking of American children. Yeah... none of these are acceptable behaviors dude.

Remember the horseshoe theory? When you compare Islam and Judaism they share a lot of the same characteristics in their treatment of others. One seeks to convert or kill, while the other seeks to subvert and control. Lastly, the victimization of the Judaic culture, over past European grievances, is what has led to 40+ years of war with the Islamic world. We don't owe them, they owe us.

Put emption aside and ponder this. Right now, American Zoomers and Millenials can see IDF strikes happen in real time. They know that Hamas is more than happy to use human shields. They're also seeing Israel is quite happy to shoot through those human shields, which happen to be little kids. Guess what that does for Israeli PR bro? When your military forces are caught on tiktok celebrating some little kids head or limbs getting blown off... that changes things. People start noticing things.

757 said:
Yes and no.

"Most of the aid—approximately $3.3 billion a year—is provided as grants under the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program, funds that Israel must use to purchase U.S. military equipment and services." -source

Now there is a current provision where they can spend some of that on Israeli defense stuff, but that is set to get phased out...as it should.

In Essence: Tax payer's money->US government->Israel->American workers making American products.

So, you are correct that the Israeli government does not give the US any of their money.
However, American businesses and thus American workers are the primary beneficiaries of our governments aid to Israel.

Call it an exotic redistribution of wealth that funds the M.I.C while providing useful combat data.
Click to expand...
That's still not good bro :ROFLMAO:! The American taxpayer is still getting hoodwinked. The Israeli's should be buying their own gear, not having Uncle Sugar finance it. All while they use the money saved to buy politicians. They're worse than the Europeans in that aspect. They're also not our friend.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
The misbehavior is a foreign power being ingrained in American politics, at a state and local level, since 1963. For the past 60 years Israel has been fudging the numbers on who does and doesn't get elected. Add in American Bolshevism, attacks on Americans/US personnel, the communist infiltration of academia/media, and lately the sex trafficking of American children. Yeah... none of these are acceptable behaviors dude.

Remember the horseshoe theory? When you compare Islam and Judaism they share a lot of the same characteristics in their treatment of others. One seeks to convert or kill, while the other seeks to subvert and control. Lastly, the victimization of the Judaic culture, over past European grievances, is what has led to 40+ years of war with the Islamic world. We don't owe them, they owe us.

Put emption aside and ponder this. Right now, American Zoomers and Millenials can see IDF strikes happen in real time. They know that Hamas is more than happy to use human shields. They're also seeing Israel is quite happy to shoot through those human shields, which happen to be little kids. Guess what that does for Israeli PR bro? When your military forces are caught on tiktok celebrating some little kids head or limbs getting blown off... that changes things. People start noticing things.


That's still not good bro :ROFLMAO:! The American taxpayer is still getting hoodwinked. The Israeli's should be buying their own gear, not having Uncle Sugar finance it. All while they use the money saved to buy politicians. They're worse than the Europeans in that aspect. They're also not our friend.
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I take you don’t like Israel
 
R.Caerbannog said:
The misbehavior is a foreign power being ingrained in American politics, at a state and local level, since 1963. For the past 60 years Israel has been fudging the numbers on who does and doesn't get elected. Add in American Bolshevism, attacks on Americans/US personnel, the communist infiltration of academia/media, and lately the sex trafficking of American children. Yeah... none of these are acceptable behaviors dude.

Remember the horseshoe theory? When you compare Islam and Judaism they share a lot of the same characteristics in their treatment of others. One seeks to convert or kill, while the other seeks to subvert and control. Lastly, the victimization of the Judaic culture, over past European grievances, is what has led to 40+ years of war with the Islamic world. We don't owe them, they owe us.

Put emption aside and ponder this. Right now, American Zoomers and Millenials can see IDF strikes happen in real time. They know that Hamas is more than happy to use human shields. They're also seeing Israel is quite happy to shoot through those human shields, which happen to be little kids. Guess what that does for Israeli PR bro? When your military forces are caught on tiktok celebrating some little kids head or limbs getting blown off... that changes things. People start noticing things.


That's still not good bro :ROFLMAO:! The American taxpayer is still getting hoodwinked. The Israeli's should be buying their own gear, not having Uncle Sugar finance it. All while they use the money saved to buy politicians. They're worse than the Europeans in that aspect. They're also not our friend.
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And...that's it.

cover2.jpg
 
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R.Caerbannog said:
Bro you totally missed the point.
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Turkey. Majority Sunni country, has excellent demographics, and will likely be the dominant regional power after Israel ages out.
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No I understand the point your trying to make Israel is bad and is like Palestine and they are to blame for their constant persecution across time and are no friends of ours.
 
Jaknight said:
What do you mean explain why? I’m just going by your posts.
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What examples in the rabbits posts have justified this stance. Fact check the rabbit. If you've truly gone over what I've posted, you should be able to provide an an explanation or two.
 
R.Caerbannog said:
What examples in the rabbits posts have justified this stance. Fact check the rabbit. If you've truly gone over what I've posted, you should be able to provide an an explanation or two.
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Well, you said that Islam and Judaism are the same, which I disagree with. After all, I don’t recall the West having to fight off Judaic conquests since the medieval ages. You also shared that video of "A Goyim's History," which was 2 hours of hearing about the Jews and their master financial plans. I admit it was funny how he would say "Jewry" like he was speaking about some dark magic ritual. You have also said they are not a friend.
 

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