Mandatory Voting

AWP

SOF Support
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
19,193
Location
Florida
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/index.html

"Other countries have mandatory voting," Obama said Wednesday in Cleveland, where he spoke about the importance of middle class economics, and was asked about the issue during a town hall.

"The people who tend not to vote are young, they're lower income, they're skewed more heavily towards immigrant groups and minority groups," Obama said. "There's a reason why some folks try to keep them away from the polls."

Seriously? This is the "leader" of the free world? More gov't is the solution? I guess voter intimidation doesn't count the Black Panther incidents?

I try to be neutral where politics are concerned, but is too much.

If you like the vote you cast you can keep the vote you cast...
 
The demographics mentioned tend to vote liberal/democrat.

Guess he feels the only way to stay in power is by forcing (how?) people to vote.
 
This feels like a silly push back to Republican's in conservative states trying to pass those dumb ass voter registration laws to bar some people from voting. For fucks sake, let people vote or not, it's their choice.
 
This feels like a silly push back to Republican's in conservative states trying to pass those dumb ass voter registration laws to bar some people from voting. For fucks sake, let people vote or not, it's their choice.
I'm all for letting citizens of the United States vote. The only way to prove that you are a legal citizen is to show a form of identification, which can be freely uptained.
 
Last edited:
I'm all for letting citizens of the United States voting. The only way to prove that is to show a form of identification, which can be freely uptained.

That's not what was happening. The voter ID acts that were being passed were requiring two different forms of government ID. Most people only have one, and for those such as the elderly or those who don't drive, it isn't easy to get two different forms of ID. Even now the only reason I have two different types is because I have a VA card. Plus requiring two different forms of ID means paying for those forms of ID, which equates a poll tax, which is illegal. Hence why many of the voter ID acts have been struck down. Also the reasoning behind passing those acts, to cut down on voter fraud, is a bit of a farce since voter fraud is almost non-existent in the US, with less than 100 cases of it reported in the last national election. I agree, ID to vote yes, but making it an undo burden to vote, no.
 
One of the greatest rights we have is...to "choose whether or not to exercise our rights."

That is our right...it isn't a right when we are forced to do something...it then becomes an order.
 
That's not what was happening. The voter ID acts that were being passed were requiring two different forms of government ID. Most people only have one, and for those such as the elderly or those who don't drive, it isn't easy to get two different forms of ID. Even now the only reason I have two different types is because I have a VA card. Plus requiring two different forms of ID means paying for those forms of ID, which equates a poll tax, which is illegal. Hence why many of the voter ID acts have been struck down. Also the reasoning behind passing those acts, to cut down on voter fraud, is a bit of a farce since voter fraud is almost non-existent in the US, with less than 100 cases of it reported in the last national election. I agree, ID to vote yes, but making it an undo burden to vote, no.

Could this be the prelude to a " National/Governmental Identification" card? Everyone gets one maybe using your SSN, or another ID number. Possibly having information such as DOB, race, gender, political party membership/ affiliation, this is a mandatory voter ID after all. It will be your picture ID issued by our National Government, aka:" your papers please". With big government growing bigger each year, mandatory voting, and mandatory national voter ID is the next step. This happening with a President running the nation my uncontested exucitive orders, after executive order, is not that far from possible.
 
Could this be the prelude to a " National/Governmental Identification" card? Everyone gets one maybe using your SSN, or another ID number. Possibly having information such as DOB, race, gender, political party membership/ affiliation, this is a mandatory voter ID after all. It will be your picture ID issued by our National Government, aka:" your papers please"
We pretty much already have that, it's called your social security number. Then add your drivers license which requires a social security number and your voter registration card, which requires a social security number . Now I have all that information, you're just scared of having it in one place?
I'm not advocating that, but I don't think it is a bad thing to check to make sure you are legally able to vote, only once, for each election you choose to vote in.
 
That's not what was happening. The voter ID acts that were being passed were requiring two different forms of government ID. Most people only have one, and for those such as the elderly or those who don't drive, it isn't easy to get two different forms of ID. Even now the only reason I have two different types is because I have a VA card. Plus requiring two different forms of ID means paying for those forms of ID, which equates a poll tax, which is illegal. Hence why many of the voter ID acts have been struck down. Also the reasoning behind passing those acts, to cut down on voter fraud, is a bit of a farce since voter fraud is almost non-existent in the US, with less than 100 cases of it reported in the last national election. I agree, ID to vote yes, but making it an undo burden to vote, no.
Examples please.

Texas requires a single Photo I.D.

Replacing a lost Military I.D. requires three government issued I.D.'s.

Drivers License, or State I.D. card (latter is usually free).
Same folks bitching about voter I.D. manage to produce an I.D. when buying a 6-pack of beer.
 
My wallet has a drivers licence, high risk activity licence (fork lift/tele-handler), blasters licence, dangerous goods security card, dangerous goods drivers licence, DVA veterans affairs card, medicare (govt medical card) plus 4 bank cards that would also count towards a 100 point ID check. Add in my passport and I'm looking forward to the day when get one card/chip/tattoo barcode will replace the lot.

In this day and age I've never understood the ID being a barrier argument. Here at least, if you can't satisfy a 100 point ID check, you're most probably be homeless, in the clink or a child.
 
I am fine with voter ID, I think it should be mandatory for anyone voting. While I am a voting American, I am not on board with an obama mandated voting idea. The National ID, is exrtapolating the goernment 's next step with mandated voting, and that would be a National ID card. The idea of mandated National ID card has been batted around for quite some time, and I see that idea gaining some traction. It just seems like more government, and we have an overdose of that going on now. I am of the view, that we need to trim back governmental involvement. Mandatory voting is a step in the wrong direction. My $.02 on the matter.
 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...s/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud/

https://www.aclu.org/voting-rights/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

I agree with all before mentioned, a National ID does seem a bit excessive, but given that the govt already has my fingerprints, blood, urine, retinal scans, and skin samples already on file, I don't see what else they can really take to ID me short of copies of my brain waves (which I wouldn't be surprised if they had lol).

Examples please.

Texas requires a single Photo I.D.

Replacing a lost Military I.D. requires three government issued I.D.'s.

Drivers License, or State I.D. card (latter is usually free).
Same folks bitching about voter I.D. manage to produce an I.D. when buying a 6-pack of beer.

Oh and I mis-spoke, I do apologize. I meant that they require two or more different kinds of ID to get a replacement of some forms of ID. The first link I posted up even mentions an instance where a woman produced three different kinds of ID and couldn't vote. I'm not saying have some sort of system in place to where we ensure people who are registered and legal to vote vote, that's just silly. However, given that the ID laws tend to disproportionately target those of low income, minorities, and the elderly, then we need to work on getting the kinks out of the system. I still am AGAINST mandatory voting. What are they gonna do, send the gestapo to my place and force me to the poll at gun point?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They also forward the voter ID laws close to election time in such a manner as to discourage that specific voting block. If it was done immediately after an election, with sufficient implementation time, I might be better convinced it was being proposed in good faith. Ugh, I really hate all forms of politics.
Reed
 
Oh and I mis-spoke, I do apologize. I meant that they require two or more different kinds of ID to get a replacement of some forms of ID. The first link I posted up even mentions an instance where a woman produced three different kinds of ID and couldn't vote. I'm not saying have some sort of system in place to where we ensure people who are registered and legal to vote vote, that's just silly. However, given that the ID laws tend to disproportionately target those of low income, minorities, and the elderly, then we need to work on getting the kinks out of the system. I still am AGAINST mandatory voting. What are they gonna do, send the gestapo to my place and force me to the poll at gun point?
Minority voting increased in TX after Voter ID went into effect?
I don't buy the minorities are too stupid to get a free I.D. card argument.
Easy solution, make EBT/WIC/Welfare cards a photo id card, problem solved with the low intelligence community.
 
Minority voting increased in TX after Voter ID went into effect?
I don't buy the minorities are too stupid to get a free I.D. card argument.
Easy solution, make EBT/WIC/Welfare cards a photo id card, problem solved with the low intelligence community.

Hmmm....I agree there. There is no excuse for stupidity.
 
Okay, I want everyone to take a deep breath and relax for a second. Now that that's done, go and watch this video:
It's only seven and a half minutes long and won't take up much of your day. It's the entirety of Obama's response to a question presented at the City Club of Cleveland forum, which was intended to address middle class concerns in Ohio. It was not about mandatory voting, and I will explain why.

The question, and Obama's response, was specifically about the effect of corporate financing of elections in the wake of the Supreme Court case of Citizen's United vs. FEC. He argued, correctly, that the effect of outsized corporate spending on elections have alienated people who would otherwise vote. This voter apathy led to the worst mid-term election turnout in over 72 years. Part of the reason is one that has been espoused time and time again in this very forum: that the guy elected isn't serving the people's interests, but rather the interests of themselves and of their campaign donors. These factors are especially apparent in districts with entrenched power blocs. Long-serving politicians can raise campaign funds considerably easier than potential challengers, which is part of the reason why you have people like Charlie Rangel of New York able to stay in power despite massive House ethics violations. It's part of the reason why Strom Thurmond was able to serve for somewhere close to 1000 years despite being a racist piece of shit. Okay, maybe it was more like 49 years. Here's a great interview from a few years ago about why voter apathy is a shitty thing that tears at democracy: http://www.ibtimes.com/why-there-so-much-voter-apathy-us-elections-315494

The fact is that America ranks lower than other industrialized nations in voter turnout. Yes, part of it we owe to the fact that our "winner-take-all" style of voting means that people who are in the political-minority (for example, Republicans in California or Democrats in Vermont) simply don't vote. In other countries, particularly those with parliamentary systems, voter turnout is high because even if your party doesn't win, you will still get some proportional representation in parliament. It's one of those self-licking ice cream cones: people don't vote because they don't see the point, which keeps the current party in power, which makes people not vote because they don't see the point, which keeps the current party in power, and on and on and on. Barring some radical change in demographics or ideology, these blocs can stay entrenched for years. As the President also said, Gerrymandering is another one of those processes that reinforces the status quo. Interestingly enough, two states on the opposite ends of the political spectrum, California and Arizona, have voted to take redistricting power away from state legislatures and entrust them to independent citizen commissions. These present their own set of challenges, but are a MUCH better alternative to the politically-charged legislative redistricting process.

The President also talked about the voter identification issue. Here I disagree with Obama. While at least one landmark study has shown that certain types of voter ID laws can disenfranchise poor and minority voters, I believe that, as a compromise, free voter IDs would be a good solution. Some commentators on predominantly-liberal networks and websites have taken this to mean that conservative governments are enacting these laws to purposely suppress minority vote. I do not agree. While racism is not a dead issue, I don't agree that it's the driving force behind ID laws. I don't believe that we have enough data to conclusively prove that any type of voter ID laws will have the deleterious effect that some claim. However, I think that some states are taking a wrong-headed approach to the actual voting process, ostensibly to combat voter fraud. Several states that lessened early voting, or eliminated same-day registration and have made the voting process more burdensome for low-income voters. That's not just minority voters, mind you: many of the states that have significant impoverished white populations have restricted either early voting and absentee voting, or a combination of the two. This graphic provides a good overview of the national situation, and when cross-referenced with intersectional data on race and poverty provided <here>, shows us that fully 10 of the 25 states that restrict early or absentee voting have an impoverished white population at or above the national average. So while the correlation is not especially strong, it refutes the earlier assertions that this is only about enfranchising minorities or liberals.

Now, everyone is getting fixated on the Australia comment. It certainly stands out. But when taken in context of the overarching theme of Obama's message (voter enfranchisement), and the central thrust of the original question (campaign finance), I firmly believe that the Obama was using it merely as an example to bolster his central argument, rather than as an actual solution. He just kind of threw it out there as an idealized, best-case example, rather than as an actual solution. The fact the refers to a constitutional amendment process to counteract the Citizen's United decision immediately afterward gives you an insight to his thought process. I suppose that you could view that statement through a particular lens if you already don't like Obama and come up with the conclusion that he's tyrannical or power-hungry or whatever. But again, if you ignore the almost six minutes he spoke about getting people to vote and instead focus on a comment that took less than thirty seconds to say (including verbal pauses), then I suppose you could draw out any interpretation. All that the President wants is for people to fucking vote! And to make that happen, he wants wants future administrations to take steps to enfranchise voters, not force them.

Personally, I believe that voting is one of the greatest rights that we have in America, and is an end in itself. Everyone who is capable ought to express that right. I do not believe that mandatory voting is the answer, and I don't think that the President does either. It runs contrary to our values and culture. What I do believe is that we ought to uphold the spirit of the 14th, 15th, and 24th amendments by removing removing unreasonable barriers to voting. That doesn't mean all barriers. As I said before, I am not against voter ID laws per se. What I am against is measures that make it more difficult for an already-apathetic or disenfranchised group to vote. The fewer people we have voting, the less democratic representation we have. And the less representation we have, the more influence that corporate interests and lobbyists have on the political process.
 
Also the reasoning behind passing those acts, to cut down on voter fraud, is a bit of a farce since voter fraud is almost non-existent in the US, with less than 100 cases of it reported in the last national election.

Actually a study by Old Dominion University says that non-citizen voting most likely played a pivotal role in some electoral college votes and congressional elections because of low margins of victory.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ld-non-citizens-decide-the-november-election/

http://ww2.odu.edu/~jrichman/NonCitizenVote.pdf
 
@Deathy McDeath I understand your post and tend to agree with it, but my problem is that he said it at all. He didn't just bring it up, he used certain demographics to illustrate his point, demographics which, and I'll bet you a dollar, tend to vote Democrat and not Republican.

We've had health care jammed down our throats and now he's even bringing up the topic of more gov't mandated actions for the good of the people? He shouldn't have gone down that path and my cynical side (which is to say almost all of me) doesn't see this as a gaff or slip of the tongue, but something very calculated and a topic he or his staff have clearly given consideration.

We shouldn't have this thread because this shouldn't even be a topic, but he made it one.
 
Back
Top