MARSOC- MOS CREATION AND TOURS

[tigerstr]

Just read an article on MARSOC, in Marine Corps Gazette ( on line version). The author reasons that 5 year tours for enlisted and officers and then reassignment with possible return for another tour, is not enough and advocates the creation of a MARSOC –MOS enabling MARSOC personnel to rotate between operating force tours B- billets and joint-staff assignments in A SOF field closed loop.

If I understood well, he states that captains who are selected for MARSOC units will get a 5 year tour after the B-billet period and so will miss command of a regular company and Battalion XO position, which will severely hamper their chances for Battalion Command in “line” Battalions, because of board members not fully understanding his MARSOC command positions at the MSOT, MSOC level.

Same for NCOs. He states that a MARSOC Staff Sgt will go after in a B Billet and will still be a SSGT when his peers have been promoted because he will still not have passed from a Platoon SGT position

Is this accurate?

I thought that Captains could volunteer for MARSOC after first operating forces tour ( junior Captain level) for a 2-3 year tour , INSTEAD of a B-Billet position, then get to EWS, get a Company Command, and then come back at O-4 level for MSOC command, without any handicaps for Battalion Command.

Αny opinions on the subject?

 

[AssadUSMC]

I'm not sure about the promotion requirements and how they're tied to tours, but if MARSOC wants a sustainable force, they need to keep their operators and leaders in-house. B-Billet rotations, cross-training tours with other SOF units, etc. would all keep guys fresh. Once you have that institutional knowledge and well-trained guys, you have to keep it and grow it.

I could never understand (short of personal/family reasons) why guys (esp. enlisted) would rotate out of Force, SF, Delta, etc. into "the regular units", and making them move makes less sense.

 

[Trip_Wire]

I'm not sure about the promotion requirements and how they're tied to tours, but if MARSOC wants a sustainable force, they need to keep their operators and leaders in-house. B-Billet rotations, cross-training tours with other SOF units, etc. would all keep guys fresh. Once you have that institutional knowledge and well-trained guys, you have to keep it and grow it.

I could never understand (short of personal/family reasons) why guys (esp. enlisted) would rotate out of Force, SF, Delta, etc. into "the regular units", and making them move makes less sense.

I didn't want to post here until a Marine spoke up. In reviewing your post and based on SF experience, I must agree with your summation 100%.;)

 

[0699]

The funny part of this is that one of the ways MARSOC was "sold" to the Corps is that it would allow us to get people trained on SOCOMs dime, then return to the FMF with the new knowledge. Everyone knew it was BS then (and still is today), but it worked.

Anyone that thinks we can perform at the same level as SFC with 3-5 year tours has their head up their @$$...

 

[AssadUSMC]

If I was still in, I would have definitely indoc'ed for MARSOC. And if I had gone through the pipeline, did a SOCOM tour, and then had to go back to FMF (even as a Force or Radio Recon guy), I'd be pissed.

A few of my friends left the recon community for less and went to TF (Insert color here).

 

[tigerstr]

AssadUSMC "If I was still in, I would have definitely indoc'ed for MARSOC. And if I had gone through the pipeline, did a SOCOM tour, and then had to go back to FMF (even as a Force or Radio Recon guy), I'd be pissed.
A few of my friends left the recon community for less and went to TF (Insert color here)"

What do you mean "for less" and can you explain what "TF (insert colour)" is?

Why would you be pissed to go back to FMF even as a FR or Radio Recon team member?

They may be outside SOF ( by the way I read that 1st Force Recon will be re-instated in the regular forces with members of Delta Company/ 1st Recon Bat) but I always thought they ara in the same league if not better than most.

Forgive my ignorance in these "everyday life" issues. I am an outsider, so rotating say between MARSOC and FR or RR doesnt sound like such a bad deal.

I understand budgeting and gear is much better in SOF units but is this enough to make somebody leave the Marines and join the Navy/Army/Airforce?

 

[AWP]

We will not discuss numbered or colored task forces.

Carry on.

 

[AssadUSMC]

What do you mean "for less" and can you explain what "TF (insert colour)" is?

Why would you be pissed to go back to FMF even as a FR or Radio Recon team member?

As Freefalling said, I won't expound on the TF part - either you know or you don't.

As for my other comment, once you've grasped the golden ring (i.e. MARSOC), you don't want to take backward steps. Force Recon was most certainly the golden ring (though I know some ANGLICO snipers that would argue), but now MARSOC is the pointiest end of the Marine spear.

Don't get me wrong, even as a lil ol' 0331 machine gunner, I thought I was the shit. But as you progress on to bigger and better things, it's tough to step back (unless you've got family or personal reasons). When I said "for less", I mean guys who were annoyed with their CO, etc. and found another way to get their kicks, rather than the MARSOC example of being forced to return to the regular FMF.

 

[tigerstr]

Note: You got me temporarily mixed up with the TF (insert color) thing. Freefalling clarified to the extend needed. Regarding your view, I get what you mean.

But, I suspect the Corps has done some thinking on the subject.

Between FR ( as mentioned earlier there is info that it will make a come back in the active forces), the Recon Bats, the evolving concept of SC MAGTFs and the regular advisors (Marine Corps Training and Advisory Group) created, it seems that there will be positions for MSOB and MSOAG guys to help passing on extremely valuable skills.

What is best for the Institution is not always better for the individual.

The thing is who comes first?

Also it seems that the Corps is pushing its Infantry in the SOF direction, (see Combat Hunter, Distributed Operations etc) as the Army gets more "expeditionary".

So in this context it probably makes sense for the Institution to try and pass skills and experience of senior MARSOC NCOs and Os around.

Same thing happened with FR Some people left to be PJs or SF, but some remain and as I understand go on to make very respected and "iconic" I would say, SNCOs in line Battalions.

 

[AssadUSMC]

I totally see where you're coming from. What I am suggesting is that the folks stay organic to MARSOC, but can do tours teaching at SOI, teaching at advanced schools, working in warfighter labs, etc. It would be a good break from a crazy op tempo and pass on knowledge at the same time.

You are 100% correct that knowledge is useless unless it's shared. (It's kind of how I look at this site...)

 

[0699]

This thread has me more confused than Tipper Gore at a KISS concert... :confused:

BTW, no snipers at ANGLICO.

 

[imdefaninja]

Not trying to look stupid but What is Anglico? Ive seen them around but I dont know what they are

 

[Pete031]

Not sure if I am 100 % correct, but I think they are Air Naval Gunfire Liason Company.
I interpret them to be something like a JTAC for the Marines. But more of a Unit, then an individual attached to something else.

Of course I may be wrong though.

 

[AssadUSMC]

This thread has me more confused than Tipper Gore at a KISS concert... :confused:

BTW, no snipers at ANGLICO.

That must be a recent change... My buddy was a STA platoon sgt in 1st ANGLICO in the '90s. I know ANGLICO went away for a little while when I was in, but then it came back. Did they pull the STA element from them? To me, it makes more sense to keep them in.

 

[0699]

Never been STA in ANGLICO to the best of my knowledge. Mostly artillery officers & pilots and 0861s (Forward Observers) and 0621s (RTOs) on the enlisted side, along with all the needed support (MT, supply, armory) Marines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANGLICO
http://www.iimefpublic.usmc.mil/public/iimefpublic.nsf/unitsites/anglico

BTW, it's an abbreviation, so it's always capitalized.

 

[AssadUSMC]

Well I've known 3 folks very well in ANGLICO. One was a STA sniper, one was a Navy FAC, and one was an arty FO. Two of the three are good friends of mine...

I'll have to check with my buddy again (the sniper) - he was the one who told me about ANGLICO before I ever enlisted. :uhh:

Regardless, ANGLICO is a good idea that needs to stick around.

 

[0699]

Well I've known 3 folks very well in ANGLICO.

I know a bunch too.

One was a STA sniper, one was a Navy FAC, and one was an arty FO. Two of the three are good friends of mine...

I'll have to check with my buddy again (the sniper) - he was the one who told me about ANGLICO before I ever enlisted. :uhh:

That's why I said "to the best of my knowledge". I am FAR from expert, but I have done some research.

Regardless, ANGLICO is a good idea that needs to stick around.

I agree!!

 

[AssadUSMC]

I am deferring to the expert - 0699 knows of what he speaks. I need to question my buddies!!

 

[buffalo61]

I have a couple of friends that are now senior enlisted that were part of ANGLICO back before they were disbanded. It wasn't uncommon for them to send 0861's and RO's to Ranger school and sniper school. But I don't believe that they ever had any 03's in a STA billet. They could have lat-moved into the 0861 community, since that wasn't very uncommon back then, or even now.

 

[tigerstr]

Seems that ANGLICO managed to hijack this MARSOC thread for good!!!

How about getting back to MARSOC and officer/enlisted career paths? Is there some short of path and "volunteering window" for officers and/or enlisted, or is it rather random like whenever you volunteer, (and pass) you stay for 5, then get out?

Hard to imagine this as OPSEC-sensitive so I am asking.

If someone knows and wants to share info/opinions, thanks in advance. After all it seems that this career path ( and the establishment of a MARSOC MOS of some sort, at least for enlisted) is a big debating point in the Corps right now.