National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

Ooh-Rah said:
Minimum 2 dead police officers and 1 deceased paramedic in Burnsville, MN early this morning. Details are sparse, supposedly responding to a “domestic”.

Everything is in speculation mode right now. The Twitter Hypocrites who usually post about “defunding the police” were quick to insert their copy/paste “thoughts and prayers” messages. Talking to you Senator Amy Klobuchar.

Developing: Law enforcement responds to "incident with weapons" in Burnsville
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Two police officers, first responder shot and killed in Burnsville, Minnesota

Two Burnsville police officers and a Fire Department paramedic were shot and killed early Sunday morning after an hourslong standoff following a domestic abuse call, where a gunman barricaded himself inside a home with a woman and seven children before firing on the three, then later turning a gun on himself.

Officers responded to the residence the 12600 block of 33rd Avenue S. just before 2 a.m. and attempted to communicate with those inside. Gunfire erupted several hours later, striking three officers and the firefighter/paramedic as he tended to one of the wounded.

The dead were identified as officers Paul Elmstrand and Matthew Ruge, both 27, and firefighter/paramedic, Adam Finseth, 40.

Police Sgt. Adam Medlicott was hospitalized with gunshot wounds but is expected to survive, according to a Burnsville news release.

"This is a hard day. It's a really hard day for our public safety family. We're hurting; we're hurting," Burnsville Police Chief Tanya Schwarz said at an afternoon news conference. "Today three members of our team made the ultimate sacrifice for this community. They are heroes." The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) confirmed that the gunman died at the scene.

BCA Superintendent Drew Evans said the hourlsong standoff began after a 1:50 a.m. call about domestic abuse at a single-family home in a middle-class neighborhood near Terrace Oaks East Park in southeast Burnsville. The man involved was reported to be armed and barricaded with family members in the home, including seven children aged 2 to 15. Evans said there had not been a significant history of police calls to the home before Sunday.

Gunfire erupted about 5:30 a.m. Evans said the suspect, whom he declined to identify, fired at officers who were trying to negotiate with him to leave the house.

At least one of the officers shot was inside the house, Evans said, and it is not yet clear if the others shot were inside or outside the house. Shots were fired from both the upper and main level of the home. Evans confirmed that an armored vehicle on the scene with a bullet-riddled windshield was part of the operation, "which was why it was shot."

Evans said the suspect was dead by 8 a.m. Sunday, and the other people in the house escaped without injury. Law enforcement sources confirmed that the suspect killed himself.

The BCA is still investigating the shooting, and Evans said the medical examiner's office will release the suspect's cause of death.
 
Gunz said:
I wonder if that Somali bitch has chimed in on this one.
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Surprisingly not. But I actually respect her for it, she hates cops, her constituents hate cops, why bother.

Unlike the Governor and our Attorney General Keith Elision who can both share a bag of dicks as they pause their anti-police rhetoric to offer their ‘thoughts and prayers’.

Keep em’
 
@Muppet this article made me think of you and what you do…

Killing of Burnsville first responder an extreme example of growing dangers for Minnesota’s paramedics

The fatal shooting of a Burnsville firefighter while he was tending to a fallen police officer is an extreme example of what Minnesota first-responders describe as an increasingly dangerous profession.

Deaths in the line of duty remain rare, and occur mostly when ambulances crash or medics are hit on roadsides by cars. But state and federal data both point to more injuries as emergency medical technicians and paramedics encounter violence. Forty Minnesota medics suffered violence-related injuries in 2021 and 2022 that were so severe that they missed work or were transferred or had their duties restricted, according to the most recent federal data.

Medics are trained to wait until police officers secure crime scenes and then move in to treat injuries, but seemingly stable scenes can turn dangerous quickly, said Sen. Judy Seeberger, DFL-Afton, a volunteer first-responder for the Lower St. Croix Valley Fire Department. "Sometimes I am on a scene and I can feel things shift, I can feel things change. Maybe something that was safe before becomes unsafe. It's hard when it happens."

A 2022 survey of medics represented by the Hennepin County Association of Paramedics and EMTs in Minneapolis found that 87% reported being affected by violence at work and 78% were assaulted by patients or bystanders on the job. Leaders of the union declined further comment while "full details are unknown and it is important to allow Burnsville and the families involved time to process the situation."

Medics across the world are heartbroken by the shooting, said Dylan Ferguson, director of Minnesota's Medical Services Regulatory Board, which oversees licensing of the state's first responders. "Today and in the days to come, the entire Minnesota EMS community stands shoulder to shoulder with the City of Burnsville during this difficult time as we honor the bravery and selflessness of these fallen heroes."

Veteran firefighter Adam Finseth was killed after a standoff in Burnsville early Sunday morning between police and a man who had barricaded himself in the house with a woman and several children. Finseth was caring for a wounded officer when he came under fire himself. In addition to Finseth, two police officers died and a third was wounded by gunfire.

Finseth was trained as a tactical paramedic, allowing him to embed with SWAT teams and go with them to higher-risk crime scenes so he could respond immediately if injuries occurred. His death might be the nation's first in the 52 years in which these specially trained medics have existed, said Jim Etzin, a Michigan-based consultant who ran a professional tactical EMS association.

"I cannot recall someone whose primary duty or responsibility was to be a medic or a physician on a SWAT team to be killed in the performance of their duties," he said.
Whether such a tragedy will drive more people away from Minnesota's EMS systems is unclear, but the state is already running short of medics — especially in rural parts of the state that are seeing longer wait times in response to their 911 calls for help.
Seeberger co-led a legislative task force that recently toured Minnesota to learn about the EMS shortage and why it is happening. She said most medics are aware from the start that they will be working in stressful and potentially violent situations, and that this risk wasn't cited much as a reason for the growing shortage. Medics routinely receive updated training on assessing "scene safety" in order to maintain their licensure.
However, Seeberger said she suspects violent incidents are contributing to the stress and burnout that many medics did cite in their decisions to give up working or volunteering in their local fire departments.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
@Muppet this article made me think of you and what you do…

Killing of Burnsville first responder an extreme example of growing dangers for Minnesota’s paramedics

The fatal shooting of a Burnsville firefighter while he was tending to a fallen police officer is an extreme example of what Minnesota first-responders describe as an increasingly dangerous profession.

Deaths in the line of duty remain rare, and occur mostly when ambulances crash or medics are hit on roadsides by cars. But state and federal data both point to more injuries as emergency medical technicians and paramedics encounter violence. Forty Minnesota medics suffered violence-related injuries in 2021 and 2022 that were so severe that they missed work or were transferred or had their duties restricted, according to the most recent federal data.

Medics are trained to wait until police officers secure crime scenes and then move in to treat injuries, but seemingly stable scenes can turn dangerous quickly, said Sen. Judy Seeberger, DFL-Afton, a volunteer first-responder for the Lower St. Croix Valley Fire Department. "Sometimes I am on a scene and I can feel things shift, I can feel things change. Maybe something that was safe before becomes unsafe. It's hard when it happens."

A 2022 survey of medics represented by the Hennepin County Association of Paramedics and EMTs in Minneapolis found that 87% reported being affected by violence at work and 78% were assaulted by patients or bystanders on the job. Leaders of the union declined further comment while "full details are unknown and it is important to allow Burnsville and the families involved time to process the situation."

Medics across the world are heartbroken by the shooting, said Dylan Ferguson, director of Minnesota's Medical Services Regulatory Board, which oversees licensing of the state's first responders. "Today and in the days to come, the entire Minnesota EMS community stands shoulder to shoulder with the City of Burnsville during this difficult time as we honor the bravery and selflessness of these fallen heroes."

Veteran firefighter Adam Finseth was killed after a standoff in Burnsville early Sunday morning between police and a man who had barricaded himself in the house with a woman and several children. Finseth was caring for a wounded officer when he came under fire himself. In addition to Finseth, two police officers died and a third was wounded by gunfire.

Finseth was trained as a tactical paramedic, allowing him to embed with SWAT teams and go with them to higher-risk crime scenes so he could respond immediately if injuries occurred. His death might be the nation's first in the 52 years in which these specially trained medics have existed, said Jim Etzin, a Michigan-based consultant who ran a professional tactical EMS association.

"I cannot recall someone whose primary duty or responsibility was to be a medic or a physician on a SWAT team to be killed in the performance of their duties," he said.
Whether such a tragedy will drive more people away from Minnesota's EMS systems is unclear, but the state is already running short of medics — especially in rural parts of the state that are seeing longer wait times in response to their 911 calls for help.
Seeberger co-led a legislative task force that recently toured Minnesota to learn about the EMS shortage and why it is happening. She said most medics are aware from the start that they will be working in stressful and potentially violent situations, and that this risk wasn't cited much as a reason for the growing shortage. Medics routinely receive updated training on assessing "scene safety" in order to maintain their licensure.
However, Seeberger said she suspects violent incidents are contributing to the stress and burnout that many medics did cite in their decisions to give up working or volunteering in their local fire departments.
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The threat has always been there. Now it just made the news.
 
To be fair and not to discount the risks, Finseth was a TAC Medic, not just the "average" firefighter/EMT on scene. By the nature of things, he was generally in more volatile situations.
 
Blizzard said:
To be fair and not to discount the risks, Finseth was a TAC Medic, not just the "average" firefighter/EMT on scene. By the nature of things, he was generally in more volatile situations.
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The whole thing is tragic. I think domestics and traffic stops account for something like 98% of LE deaths. Tac medic or no, you really can't account for how quickly things can go sideways in situations like this.

I never felt unsafe during a time in which I was kitted up as a tac medic; I had the kit and gear, and I had the team. But being by myself or with one other medic on scene of something that starts to turn (domestic, psych call, assault-related trauma, some peds calls), it's easy for one's spidey senses to tingle quick-like.

I get emails from EMS1 daily, which is kind of a clearing house of EMS/fire-related stuff, it always reports medic and FF deaths. These deaths are happening with more and more frequency. That's a bummer. my wife was uneasy when I was a flight medic because of the helo, she never knew the risks for 100-fold worse in a bus.
 
Devildoc said:
The whole thing is tragic. I think domestics and traffic stops account for something like 98% of LE deaths. Tac medic or no, you really can't account for how quickly things can go sideways in situations like this.

I never felt unsafe during a time in which I was kitted up as a tac medic; I had the kit and gear, and I had the team. But being by myself or with one other medic on scene of something that starts to turn (domestic, psych call, assault-related trauma, some peds calls), it's easy for one's spidey senses to tingle quick-like.

I get emails from EMS1 daily, which is kind of a clearing house of EMS/fire-related stuff, it always reports medic and FF deaths. These deaths are happening with more and more frequency. That's a bummer. my wife was uneasy when I was a flight medic because of the helo, she never knew the risks for 100-fold worse in a bus.
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Totally get it, especially the bolded part, and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Most people here probably understand this, but just wanted to be clear he wasn't there in a typical everyday medic capacity.
 
Blizzard said:
Totally get it, especially the bolded part, and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Most people here probably understand this, but just wanted to be clear he wasn't there in a typical everyday medic capacity.
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I knew you did not have an ulterior meaning, no worries. I only posted what I did to counter the common narrative (not necessarily here) that EMS is a safe job.
 
The old American LaFrance fire trucks—like the one in my dad’s engine company in the 1960’s—had open cabs, i.e., no roof. That changed in the late 60’s during the nationwide race riots and anti war riots when people started throwing rocks and bricks and shooting at firefighters.

The threat has always been there.
 
Gunz said:
The old American LaFrance fire trucks—like the one in my dad’s engine company in the 1960’s—had open cabs, i.e., no roof. That changed in the late 60’s during the nationwide race riots and anti war riots when people started throwing rocks and bricks and shooting at firefighters.

The threat has always been there.
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To be fair, that was coincidental. The NFPA standards changed around that time to require closed cabs. I don't know which came first, the riots, or the NFPA requirements. That aside, those old La France trucks were beautiful.
 
Devildoc said:
To be fair, that was coincidental. The NFPA standards changed around that time to require closed cabs. I don't know which came first, the riots, or the NFPA requirements. That aside, those old La France trucks were beautiful.
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I'm partial to the old Macks.

This was 24 years ago, firefighter calender pic.
 

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policemedic said:
Yet another reason why I’m happy that I’m armed when I play medic. And I have lots of armed bubbas around me who love Doc.
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At least you're a good cop out there with mad med skills.

Some of the cops in an unnamed Township are absolutely needy and scary to deal with, though, there are also good ones.
 
Muppet said:
At least you're a good cop out there with mad med skills.

Some of the cops in an unnamed Township are absolutely needy and scary to deal with, though, there are also good ones.
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When I was a tac medic we were certified cops. I don't know why the city used that model, but they did. But we were definitely medics, not cops. In hindsight I wish I had at least done reserved policed to maintain it, but.....

It is hard to find someone who does both and is good at both and equally committed to both. That is a rare bird indeed.
 

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