National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

Ooh-Rah said:
For the sake of clarifacation....

Is this your belief or are you being sarcastic?
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Yes, that was pure sarcasm, I thought it would readily come through in the post, I was wrong.

Clarification: If for any reason, a citizen of the United States previously put very much faith in the gov't or being able to count on the rest of society to keep themselves safe and secure, the previous few months should have erased that idea in a reasonable person's mind.

The medical community is not set up to handle disasters.

Police and Fire are not big enough to handle mass unrest.

There's enough idiots in the population to cause massive damage to the rest of us. Enough to necessitate owning firearms....if I was home now I'd be wishing I could get my hands on some bear spray and a few grenades just in case.
 
My wife was Argentine FedPol for 25yrs and carried everyday for work. Shit is RUFF down there. When she immigrated here to Fay, USA, she thought she was gonna get a break. She thought wrong.

She trained for and got her CCP here in NC a few years ago. I used to have to ask her to concealed carry to the supermarket. I don't anymore.

I cried with her a few years ago when Argentina was burning, now she's crying with me. Fayetteville, NC is on fire.

ETA: Pretty sure the AR-15 Q has been put to rest for at least the near future. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: 8-)
 
That's messed up but, sadly, doesn't even crack top 20 as far as messed up things I've seen during this.

In MN, the NG was deployed to protect hospitals and critical government buildings, like State capital, courts, Federal Reserve, etc. Perimeters are set up with streets blocked off to reduce access. Their presence is very visable.

In MN, the governor and other elected officials are trying to push this bullshit narrative that most of the rioters and those causing the unrest are "white supremacist" groups and out of staters. While I'm sure there are some of these, a vast majority are like the ones you saw in the video. It wasn't white supremacists that looted the Target and liquor stores, among others.
 
It was posted earlier that AG Ellison has taken over lead in the case of George Floyd. We've covered why many view this as problematic.

Well, now, Ellison, who again has no experience as a prosecutor, never been a courtroom attorney, and up until at least a couple years ago didn't have a valid license to even practice law (unclear if he's since met the requirements), has decided to elevate the charges against Chauvin to second degree murder. Here's the Minnesota statute (scroll left and right for first and third degree criteria):
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

Based on what we've seen, and we all know there's always more to the story, I don't see how Chauvin's actions meet the criteria for second degree. Third degree was the initial charge, along with manslaughter. I could see those sticking.

This case has become a political tool by a political activist and it may very well jeopardize what should be a slam dunk conviction.
 
Blizzard said:
I don't see how Chauvin's actions meet the criteria for second degree.
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The officer kneeled on his neck while the man begged for air, for nearly 10 minutes. He was completely indifferent to the pleas - it is absolutely 2nd degree.

I cannot stand Ellifson, but “everybody” knew it would be changed to 2nd degree eventually. The initial 3rd degree was so that the state could get him charged.

Second degree murder is generally defined as intentional murder that lacks premeditation, is intended to only cause bodily harm, and demonstrates an extreme indifference to human life. The exact legal definition of this crime will vary by jurisdiction.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
The officer kneeled on his neck while the man begged for air, for nearly 10 minutes. He was completely indifferent to the pleas - it is absolutely 2nd degree.

I cannot stand Ellifson, but “everybody” knew it would be changed to 2nd degree eventually. The initial 3rd degree was so that the state could get him charged.

Second degree murder is generally defined as intentional murder that lacks premeditation, is intended to only cause bodily harm, and demonstrates an extreme indifference to human life. The exact legal definition of this crime will vary by jurisdiction.
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Disagree. This is the actual MN statute that applies (you can change to a spoiler tag if that's more appropriate)
Minnesota Statute 609.19 said:
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.
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The only one that could maybe fit is Subd 2 (1) and that may be a stretch since in only applies if the death occurs during the commission of another felony. That's probably a pretty big hurdle in this scenario. What other felony was being committed? What other part of the statute do you think fits? I also hear people saying it shod be elevated tl first degree, but they're morons. We actually have to follow and prove the violation.

If you look 609.195, murder in the third degree, which is what Freeman convicted Noor on and what he initially sought here, that fits.
 
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I am not a lawyer, but even I could prove 2nd degree just by showing the tape to a jury. That cop meant to kill that man, or at a minor did not care if he killed him . Add in the victims audible cries for help, the officer not struggling to keep the victim restrained, and the fact that they knew each other?

The fact that they knew each other is a BIG deal.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
I am not a lawyer, but even I could prove 2nd degree just by showing the tape to a jury. That cop meant to kill that man, or at a minor did not care if he killed him . Add in the victims audible cries for help, the officer not struggling to keep the victim restrained, and the fact that they knew each other?

The fact that they knew each other is a BIG deal.
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Zero evidence so far that they actually knew each other. They worked at the same place at some point but even the nightclub owner stated it's unlikely they know each other; they worked at different times.

If I'm objective, and I try to be, I could not tell you Chauvin intended to kill Floyd. I think he was an asshole and moron in his application of force but do I think he knowingly tried to kill him while being filmed? I can't quite get there based on what I've seen so far. Perhaps there's other evidence that we don't know about.

Again, to convict on 2nd degree, there has to be another felony. What is the co-contributing felony? 3rd degree doesn't require this and seems to fit.

Moreover, I strongly suspect Chauvin's attorney to claim inability to get fair trail and look for change of venue. We'll see what happens.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
I am not a lawyer, but even I could prove 2nd degree just by showing the tape to a jury. That cop meant to kill that man, or at a minor did not care if he killed him . Add in the victims audible cries for help, the officer not struggling to keep the victim restrained, and the fact that they knew each other?

The fact that they knew each other is a BIG deal.
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Don’t be to sure of that. Cop here last year got acquitted. but they where going 1st....dumb choice
 
Ooh-Rah said:
Felony assault is what the prosecution is calling the 2nd felony.
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Yep, was just going to post the same. Good luck with that.

Sadly, this is quickly becoming a political; an opportunistic one for Ellison. Why else would anyone with absolutely no experience be placed as the lead.
 
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