National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

I mean there is photographic evidence. View attachment 35114
Helpful, thanks. Been a lot of shit going on since then so hard to remember everything.

The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.

As you can see in the video there is a significant size disparity between Floyd and all of the officers involved. Why are there four officers? Because two of those guys are rookies with two training officers.

Based on the footage I'm a bit impressed that they didn't use a taser. They didn't escalate. Given how high he was, not sure that would have done anything. Obviously all those dudes kneeling on him, the intent is to get him to calm down. What we're missing still is how he forced himself out of the car.

The more evidence comes out, the less cut and dry this becomes.
 
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The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.
Remember, they pulled him out of the squad because he was banging his head on the window.
 
Given how high he was, not sure that would have done anything.
Has this been proven as fact (that he was high)? I do not recall reading about that here. Possible that I missed it, but I think it is important to be 100% on that claim.
 
It feels like this conversation is beginning to simmer - everyone continue to keep it professional please ....

By the way, is that pork and fried tofu simmering in red miso? Or is that a curry? Either way that looks good.

Nvm, looks like a chicken curry type of dish. Mistook the chicken fat for fried and them simmered tofu.

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Remember, they pulled him out of the squad because he was banging his head on the window.

But there are ways to restrain someone without a knee on the neck. Two hands on the forehead works fine, and with 4 officers it should have been done in another manner.

I don't know what the police have for restraints, but self harm is not anywhere near a new concept for police to deal with. He was handcuffed from the back, they could restrain him on his side with one controlling the head, or face down with one on the legs, one on the body and one on the head. There's several ways to do it, suffocation is the number one concern in restraining someone.
 
But there are ways to restrain someone without a knee on the neck. Two hands on the forehead works fine, and with 4 officers it should have been done in another manner.

I don't know what the police have for restraints, but self harm is not anywhere near a new concept for police to deal with. He was handcuffed from the back, they could restrain him on his side with one controlling the head, or face down with one on the legs, one on the body and one on the head. There's several ways to do it, suffocation is the number one concern in restraining someone.
I don't disagree. Training certainly looks to be the issue.

Keep in mind a couple of those officers had been on the street for less than 2 weeks. Chauvin was the experienced officer. His actions don't demonstrate an intent to kill but potentially highlight training issues -- which were now being passed on to rookie officers. That's not murder, that's not racism. Nothing about this supports either claim.

Now, if somone wants to argue some sort of negligence or manslaughter, that's a different question.
 
I don't disagree. Training certainly looks to be the issue.

Keep in mind a couple of those officers had been on the street for less than 2 weeks. Chauvin was the experienced officer. His actions don't demonstrate an intent to kill but potentially highlight training issues -- which were now being passed on to rookie officers. That's not murder, that's not racism. Nothing about this supports either claim.

Now, if somone wants to argue some sort of negligence or manslaughter, that's a different question.
Remember, Knee on the neck was an approved restraint technique for MNPD.

Neck Hold Used By Minneapolis Officer Was Approved By Department Policy
 
After seeing the body cam video and admittedly not watching much of the cell phone video, I see that this trial is going to be a shit show at best. I feel for the guy, and the officers trying to control a volatile situation.

I don't know the officers, and I hope whatever the outcome is justice is served. I'm sick of trial by media, I worked security at a hospital and had to restrain teenagers and large kids before, escort grown men out of the building, its always a crappy experience.
 
Just another night in Paradise



Antifa militants set fires, attack police building in Portland as Democratic senators insist they don't exist

Op-Ed from Portland PD Chief in the NY Times: Opinion | I’m the Police Chief in Portland. Violence Isn’t the Answer.

After the horrendous killing of George Floyd, people in Portland, Ore., joined with thousands across the country in demonstrations to address police reform and widespread systemic racism. The leaders of the Portland Police Bureau denounced this tragic death, and we reiterated our willingness to engage in reforms.

But Portland has now faced weeks of extreme difficulties and drew intense national attention after federal officers were deployed here.

As police officers, our duty is to uphold the rights of anyone to assemble peacefully and engage in free speech. But over the months of protests, a concerning dynamic developed. People protested peacefully, while others engaged in dangerous activities that could have resulted in injury and even death.

The night of May 29 was a pivotal moment for our city. Hundreds of people, in a coordinated effort, attacked the Justice Center, which includes our Central Precinct station and the Multnomah County Detention Center. They broke into the building, destroyed the first-floor interior and lit fires. Afterward, there was looting and destruction downtown.

Yet in the following weeks, thousands of people demonstrated peacefully in an awesome expression of First Amendment rights. The Police Bureau had little to no interaction with members of this group, because they did not allow criminal activity to impede their message.

As a Black man and a public servant, I have a unique perspective. I agree with a local pastor, E.D. Mondainé, who stated these “spectacles” are drowning out the voices that need to be heard to make positive change. This violence is doing nothing to further the Black Lives Matter movement.

On one night, for example, individuals screwed the doors of our North Precinct station shut, barricaded other entrances and lit the station on fire with people inside. Nearby businesses, owned by people of color, were damaged and looted. On other nights, there were multiple attempts to breach the Justice Center. Other law enforcement facilities were targeted, including the union building, which was broken into and had fires set within.

Violence and destruction have also been directed at the federal courthouse, which sits next to the Justice Center. The president sent additional federal agents to Portland, and our city became national news.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/...on=CompanionColumn&contentCollection=Trending
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/...on=CompanionColumn&contentCollection=Trending
Gov. Kate Brown recently negotiated an agreement with the Department of Homeland Security to remove federal agents in stages and have them replaced by Oregon State Police. The governor acknowledged that this might not be the end of the violence. I hope she is wrong.

Portland is a beautiful and vibrant city with smart, progressive people, and I am hopeful we can come together to move beyond the unrest and refocus on critical issues.

The Portland Police Bureau remains committed to protecting life and responding to events as appropriate. I am proud of our efforts in extreme circumstances few in the country have faced. During these events, our agency has responded to assaults, stabbings, shootings, people with guns and the stockpiling of explosives. Shooting off commercial-grade fireworks and mortars is not peaceful protest. We are fortunate that no one has been killed.

There are those who say the Portland police have not done enough to quell violence. I ask them to come speak with our officers, who have been responding for two months to protests. They have served with professionalism, courage and resiliency through an extraordinary time. Many have been injured and some have received threats of violence to themselves or their families. They would prefer to return to regular patrol and investigative duties and see peace in our community.

The voices of victims are not heard as well. Because of the protests, officers have not been able to respond to 911 calls or have been delayed for hours. Investigators’ cases lie on their desks as they work nights to process arrests. We have seen an alarming increase in shootings and homicides. We need to redirect our focus to preventing and solving these crimes that are taking a hugely disproportionate number of minority lives.

I have said frequently that the Portland Police Bureau is committed to reform. We are a progressive agency and have demonstrated our willingness to change over the past eight years. Working with the Department of Justice, we have made significant changes to our policies and training. The Portland Police Bureau’s policy on the use of deadly force is more restrictive than state and federal law.

We recently enhanced our Community Engagement Unit to help build trust and legitimacy with the communities we serve. We have also developed several advisory councils that help the Police Bureau make decisions with the benefit of a diverse set of inputs.

The Portland Police Bureau has had an equity and inclusion office for over five years. I recently changed the organizational structure to have it report directly to me, to ensure we are prioritizing its work.

I have confidence in our community and the people who have dedicated their lives to building relationships with police. They have stood up and said no more violence. I stand with them with a servant’s heart, committed to being leaders in police reform.

Chuck Lovell is the chief of the Police Bureau in Portland, Ore.
 
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