National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[frostyred]

But they already are. We've been under constant information warfare for the past few months. Elections have been stolen and our public has been lied to. If the most powerful man in the world has been silenced by a tech giant, how much better do you think you'll fare?

Hell, look at the people who've lost their homes, businesses, and livelihoods. How free did they feel when bureaucrats passed draconian edicts against them? How far did their voices carry before they were forced into economic ruin?

The war is here and has always been here, only the intensity of it has changed. We've been like frogs in a pot, only now the heat has noticeably increased.

The fact that you seem to think our process is not working exactly as it should (albeit to a HORRID extreme right now) and that you seem to believe that our freedoms are being taken away anywhere near the level of, well, take your pick of authoritarian states suggests your scope of what the world is like is being seen through a very narrow lens. We (the American population) have been under informational assault from both the inside and outside for far longer than a few months, heavily via external influence campaigns (due to the impossibly complex interweaving and interconnections of the modern Internet) and internal power-hungry individuals who aim to do better only for themselves and not their fellow American. Around half of the country has forgotten we're all family, and fight against/amongst themselves, and the other half is just plain tired of the stupid.

The vast differences in socioeconomic class, living conditions based on where you make your home, disparity between education, and a million other things cause us to see each other as enemies instead of countrymen. And as of late, late being the last 5-8 years minimum, large patches of leadership (on both sides) have utterly shit the bed on breaking down barriers and reminding us that we're all the same.

The "most powerful man in the world" hasn't been silenced, he's been put on a timeout from using a single social media platform for a short amount of time. This is the same as if he was banned from posting on 4chan for a day. Until legislation passes that A) Internet access is a universal, constitutional right, and then B) the Internet becomes owned by the public, and not by private companies providing a service that you pay for with vague ToS and your lack of concern for your own data privacy, this won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

The fact that you seem to think our process is not working exactly as it should (albeit to a HORRID extreme right now) and that you seem to believe that our freedoms are being taken away anywhere near the level of, well, take your pick of authoritarian states suggests your scope of what the world is like is being seen through a very narrow lens. We (the American population) have been under informational assault from both the inside and outside for far longer than a few months, heavily via external influence campaigns (due to the impossibly complex interweaving and interconnections of the modern Internet) and internal power-hungry individuals who aim to do better only for themselves and not their fellow American. Around half of the country has forgotten we're all family, and fight against/amongst themselves, and the other half is just plain tired of the stupid.

The vast differences in socioeconomic class, living conditions based on where you make your home, disparity between education, and a million other things cause us to see each other as enemies instead of countrymen. And as of late, late being the last 5-8 years minimum, large patches of leadership (on both sides) have utterly shit the bed on breaking down barriers and reminding us that we're all the same.

The "most powerful man in the world" hasn't been silenced, he's been put on a timeout from using a single social media platform for a short amount of time. This is the same as if he was banned from posting on 4chan for a day. Until legislation passes that A) Internet access is a universal, constitutional right, and then B) the Internet becomes owned by the public, and not by private companies providing a service that you pay for with vague ToS and your lack of concern for your own data privacy, this won't be changing anytime soon.

Dude... I'm an ex grunt and hobby anthropologist. Please go easy on the word storm.

Also, I've been saying that the nation has been under an dis/mis info attack for years now... and it's gotten me called a conspiracy theorist. But yeah, I totally agree we've been under assault for longer than a few months.

As for the process not working, we've literally seen an election stolen right before our eyes and our political class won't do anything about it. At this point the social contract has been broken. If our votes don't matter, our elected officials are silenced, and our wealth & freedoms are stripped from us, what do you expect is going to happen?

Freedom and free men are a scary thing yo.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

I happen to know a little about information warfare and even though I do see how Social Media is being weaponized and used to further wedge Americans into two camps; I don’t see how you could compare this to how the British oppressed the Colonists. I mean that’s like trying to compare the Capital storming to Pearl Harbor. Not even same ballpark.

I will agree that there is almost certainly information warfare going on but there are more than just one party or person at the table. And so far people have lost businesses to riots and losing money because of COVID so I don’t see that as an organized Government deep state. I could get woke and try to figure out which group is doing what, but I’ll just wait until the real oppression sets in

Dude, Congress just sent your tax money (on a credit card) to Pakistan for 'gender studies'. Same with a bunch of other countries. Taxation without representation was kind of a big deal for the founding fathers.

Also, GOV edicts killed those small businesses. Covid and the fear it generated was the excuse used to bring them to their knees.

 

[Devildoc]

We get taxation with representation with an asterisk. We do via voting, but as we know it's binary, and although we vote we get no say in anything regarding taxation.

Bringing this back to cops, the actions of the capitol police sure didn't do anything to ensure trust, but based on the video, it looks like many of the others exercised enormous restraint on the grounds based on the way some of those morons were acting.

 

[frostyred]

We get taxation with representation with an asterisk. We do via voting, but as we know it's binary, and although we vote we get no say in anything regarding taxation.

Bringing this back to cops, the actions of the capitol police sure didn't do anything to ensure trust, but based on the video, it looks like many of the others exercised enormous restraint on the grounds based on the way some of those morons were acting.

You mean the police exercised restraint? I'd agree, especially because I think the assumption was that far more protestors were armed than were arrested for carrying.

 

[Devildoc]

You mean the police exercised restraint? I'd agree, especially because I think the assumption was that far more protestors were armed than were arrested for carrying.

Yeah, after the crowds were booted from the capitol and everyone was outside, some of the video showed some up-close-and-personal jackasses getting into the cops' grills, and the LEOs weren't engaging, and in my opinion, showed pretty good restraint.

I was a state-certified LEO once (I had to be to be a medic on a LE SWAT team), but never a 'real' cop. With my desire to rapidly pepper spray, tase, or asp some knees anyone who annoys me, I would not have made a good street cop: I would have escalated things quickly with booger-eaters. If I was at the capitol last night, I know that I would not have the same restraint.

 

[frostyred]

Yeah, after the crowds were booted from the capitol and everyone was outside, some of the video showed some up-close-and-personal jackasses getting into the cops' grills, and the LEOs weren't engaging, and in my opinion, showed pretty good restraint.

I was a state-certified LEO once (I had to be to be a medic on a LE SWAT team), but never a 'real' cop. With my desire to rapidly pepper spray, tase, or asp some knees anyone who annoys me, I would not have made a good street cop: I would have escalated things quickly with booger-eaters. If I was at the capitol last night, I know that I would not have the same restraint.

Yeah. MPD has its problems, for sure, but throughout the protests all this year, I think they've generally showed a decent amount of restraint. I went and biked around in May, keeping my distance and observing, and it was really, really intriguing to see how it was all going.

 

[RetPara]

Video of shooting. IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347056697899163648

 

[ThunderHorse]

Video of shooting. IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347056697899163648

Yeah, he better be going away, for a very long time.

 

[Brill]

Yeah, he better be going away, for a very long time.

One round fired is curious. I’m sure there was very conflicted inner dialogue.

 

[DA SWO]

Video of shooting. IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1347056697899163648

New admin will push it under the rug.

 

[BloodStripe]

 

[JedisonsDad]

I think it’s going to be a tough defense, considering there were so many armed officers directly behind her, and clearly they didn’t see a need to shoot despite being on the same side of the door as the “threat”

 

[AWP]

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.

 

[BloodStripe]

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.

Have you ever been taught to lunge towards someone you were shooting? The guy took aim for about 5 seconds and then lunged forward.

 

[RackMaster]

Have you ever been taught to lunge towards someone you were shooting? The guy took aim for about 5 seconds and then lunged forward.

Fell maybe?

 

[Kraut783]

IMHO, inexperienced and stressed....was pointing the pistol at the "perceived" threat...the barricaded doors themselves. When the victim starting over the barricade, freaked and shot.

but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[BloodStripe]

I mean weapon safety rule number two is never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

 

[Kraut783]

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.

From looking at the video....I can't see where using deadly force would be warranted. Physical force, or less lethal, yep.

Unless there was a pistol/knife/club in her hand that we didn't see and "disappeared" after she fell. I have only seen that one vid and can't tell.

EDIT: I would be curious what ROE's USCP might have.

 

[Kraut783]

I mean weapon safety rule number two is never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

heh, apparently true in this situation....