Navy ship collisions thread from 2017

[AWP]

The tech exists, but is a nation dumb enough to telegraph that capability on a foreign warship, or any ship? You might as well debut your stealth fighter by flying to a foreign air force base.

 

[R.Caerbannog]

It could be possible that this could be a dry run on tech that the Chinese have stolen/redeveloped, or maybe a warning to not mess around with their assets in the Pacific. I just get the feeling that stolen digitally based technologies can easily and cheaply be repurposed by another faction. With stolen digital technologies you don't have to manufacture physical parts that you may or may not have the tooling for, kinda like those stolen aircraft plans (Snowy Owl), it would just be a matter of copying or altering the source program to your needs or specifications.

I dunno, I just find it skeevy that the PRC has accessed and repurposed so much tech and that this is the second time that an incident like this has happened.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Maybe someone was just reliving their earlier days in the bathtub playing bumper boat's?

How did you get fired Skipper?

Well see, what happens was, in all of the fucking ocean I ran my boat up into another boat.


For fuck sake.

 

[Devildoc]

Well see, what happens was, in all of the fucking ocean I ran my boat up into another boat.

In that strait, it really is not that difficult. It is one of the most congested sea lanes in the world.

 

[Devildoc]

Just read this. This should be required reading if you want to discuss boats colliding in the ocean blue:

Collisions: Part I—What Are the Root Causes?- By Captain Kevin Eyer, U.S. Navy (Retired) | U.S. Naval Institute

 

[ThunderHorse]

This no good methinks: U.S. Navy Says Most Seventh Fleet Warships Lacked Proper Certification

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I know not everyone has subscription to WSJ, so here are the first four paragraphs from that article.

----------

WASHINGTON—The majority of ships operating in the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet, where two destroyers have been involved in fatal collisions since June, weren’t certified to conduct basic operations at sea related to war-fighting, according to U.S. Navy records.

As of late June, eight of the 11 cruisers and destroyers in the Seventh Fleet, and their crew members, weren’t certified by the U.S. Navy to conduct “mobility seamanship,” or basic steering of the ship, accord-ing to U.S. Navy records provided to two House Armed Services subcommit-tees. The Navy also said that seven of those ships had expired training certifi-cation in the areas of cruise missile defense and surface warfare, which test a crew’s ability to defend a ship or to conduct attacks.

The USS Fitzgerald col-lided with a Philippine-flagged vessel on June 17, killing seven crew members. The USS John McCain collided with a Liberian-flagged vessel Aug. 21, killing 10 sailors. Neither the Fitzgerald nor the McCain were certified for the majority of the mission operation requirements that the Navy periodically evaluates.

The Seventh Fleet’s destroy-ers and cruisers generally met certification in other areas such as maintenance, communications, naviga-tion, explosive safely and search and rescue.

 

[DA SWO]

I know not everyone has subscription to WSJ, so here are the first four paragraphs from that article.

----------

WASHINGTON—The majority of ships operating in the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet, where two destroyers have been involved in fatal collisions since June, weren’t certified to conduct basic operations at sea related to war-fighting, according to U.S. Navy records.

As of late June, eight of the 11 cruisers and destroyers in the Seventh Fleet, and their crew members, weren’t certified by the U.S. Navy to conduct “mobility seamanship,” or basic steering of the ship, accord-ing to U.S. Navy records provided to two House Armed Services subcommit-tees. The Navy also said that seven of those ships had expired training certifi-cation in the areas of cruise missile defense and surface warfare, which test a crew’s ability to defend a ship or to conduct attacks.

The USS Fitzgerald col-lided with a Philippine-flagged vessel on June 17, killing seven crew members. The USS John McCain collided with a Liberian-flagged vessel Aug. 21, killing 10 sailors. Neither the Fitzgerald nor the McCain were certified for the majority of the mission operation requirements that the Navy periodically evaluates.

The Seventh Fleet’s destroy-ers and cruisers generally met certification in other areas such as maintenance, communications, naviga-tion, explosive safely and search and rescue.

But they had green dot, and all the transgender shit done.

 

[Teufel]

China isn't hacking ships. Come on guys. Do you think they'd do it for shits and giggles when they could keep that capability secret and use it when they actually need it? Providing they can, of course.

It's not the China, it's not ISIS and it's not some conspiracy theory I've not thought of yet. It's the US Navy and some bad luck.

It is possible that they did it inadvertently and their cyber exploitation attempt became a cyber attack. The investigation will be an interesting read.

 

[SpitfireV]

It is possible that they did it inadvertently and their cyber exploitation attempt became a cyber attack. The investigation will be an interesting read.

Anything is *possible* I agree but it seems *unlikely* if we use Occam's Razor. Either way, even the unclass report will be interesting.

 

[Marauder06]

But they had green dot, ...

^this. There is literally too much to do, if you do everything required and do it to standard. And sometimes the standards are so ridiculous that they seem merely to be there to use against people when something bad finally happens. See also the "Lying To Ourselves" study.

 

[Il Duce]

^this. There is literally too much to do, if you do everything required and do it to standard. And sometimes the standards are so ridiculous that they seem merely to be there to use against people when something bad finally happens. See also the "Lying To Ourselves" study.

If only there were someone responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in these types of organizations. Someone who could weigh risks, make decisions, bear the responsibility for consequences, and communicate clear truth to the powers that send down these orders and requirements. What would we even call such a person...

 

[racing_kitty]

If only there were someone responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in these types of organizations. Someone who could weigh risks, make decisions, bear the responsibility for consequences, and communicate clear truth to the powers that send down these orders and requirements. What would we even call such a person...

We used to call them "General," "Admiral," or "Colonel/Captain," but that kind of leadership has been bred out of the flag ranks in favor of the ability to fellate politicians and spout talking points simultaneously.

 

[Il Duce]

We used to call them "General," "Admiral," or "Colonel/Captain," but that kind of leadership has been bred out of the flag ranks in favor of the ability to fellate politicians and spout talking points simultaneously.

I would have just accepted 'commander' - at any level. The way my first company commander, @Marauder06, explained it to me as a LT 'officer' is another correct answer for those people.

I will say this for the Navy - at least they relieve people who fuck up operations. Better late than never, I think the Army could take a lesson.

 

[Teufel]

Anything is *possible* I agree but it seems *unlikely* if we use Occam's Razor. Either way, even the unclass report will be interesting.

The McCain lost both primary and back up steering controls in a crowded strait. That seems fishy to me.

 

[Frank S.]

^this. There is literally too much to do, if you do everything required and do it to standard. And sometimes the standards are so ridiculous that they seem merely to be there to use against people when something bad finally happens. See also the "Lying To Ourselves" study.

That seems to be an underlying theme in several threads.

 

[SpitfireV]

The McCain lost both primary and back up steering controls in a crowded strait. That seems fishy to me.

I haven't read that but I have read that the McCain had right of way and ships with the right of way aren't supposed to be the ones to make evasion.

 

[Teufel]

I haven't read that but I have read that the McCain had right of way and ships with the right of way aren't supposed to be the ones to make evasion.

With the USS McCain collision, even Navy tech can’t overcome human shortcomings

"Initial reports from the organization suggest that a "steering casualty"—a loss of control over steering from the bridge—contributed to the McCain's fatal collision. That, and the nature of the ship's steering and navigation system, has led to speculation that the McCain was "hacked" and that perhaps some sort of malicious electronic attack was also involved in the Fitzgerald's collision."

You're right but the McCain may have still avoided collision if she didn't have a steering casualty.

 

[SpitfireV]

With the USS McCain collision, even Navy tech can’t overcome human shortcomings

"Initial reports from the organization suggest that a "steering casualty"—a loss of control over steering from the bridge—contributed to the McCain's fatal collision. That, and the nature of the ship's steering and navigation system, has led to speculation that the McCain was "hacked" and that perhaps some sort of malicious electronic attack was also involved in the Fitzgerald's collision."

You're right but the McCain may have still avoided collision if she didn't have a steering casualty.

I guess we'll find out in a few months/a year/when the President tweets it.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Do we not have manual backups for steerage?