New pipeline for TACP

[Red-Dot]

For all those concerned, it looks like a new pipeline (which will take a little over a year) for TACP's is in the works. All TACP's will now go through JTACQC. Once completed they will roll into their ASOS's and then undergo their evals and be ready to hit the ground running. This is supposed to take place 2014/2015 time frame. More words to follow. Regards

 

[AWP]

That is fantastic news.

 

[DA SWO]

Interesting, everyone will be JTAC Qual'd?

You should see a shitload of retirements from the larger units soon (ASOC's?).

What will the pipe look like?

 

[CDG]

Interesting, everyone will be JTAC Qual'd?

You should see a shitload of retirements from the larger units soon (ASOC's?).

What will the pipe look like?

I am answering this based off what was put out at drill this month, and if I am wrong the fault lies squarely with me. The pipeline will go Prep Course--->Tech School--->SERE--->AST (Advanced Skills Training)--->JTAC QC. What was put out to us was that the TACP, or ROMAD, position was largely irrelevant now. The Army has guys that can maintain radios, they need JTACs to call in CAS.

 

[Red-Dot]

I am answering this based off what was put out at drill this month, and if I am wrong the fault lies squarely with me. The pipeline will go Prep Course--->Tech School--->SERE--->AST (Advanced Skills Training)--->JTAC QC. What was put out to us was that the TACP, or ROMAD, position was largely irrelevant now. The Army has guys that can maintain radios, they need JTACs to call in CAS.

Ditto

 

[DA SWO]

Any idea where the school is being moved too?

 

[Red-Dot]

Only speculation, but I have heard Lackland or Keesler......

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2...and-keesler-compete-tacp-alo-schools-051612w/

 

[amlove21]

I had heard this was due (in some part) to the no-kidding TACP billets at RQS's. I worked with a couple during train up, and the slots are there, but that a more formalized course (granting the JTAC qual) was one of the selling points to get them on the teams. Not 100% sure I would say that with any certainty, but it makes sense.

 

[goon175]

What is 'RQS'?

 

[DA SWO]

Only speculation, but I have heard Lackland or Keesler......

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2...and-keesler-compete-tacp-alo-schools-051612w/

I hope Lackland.

What is 'RQS'?

Rescue squadron.

 

[Psyc_9780]

I have a quick question for you guys regarding TACP. Does it fall under SOCOM, I mean as far as their pipeline? Also, do they train to conduct any DA or IW besider their main mission?

 

[Red-Dot]

I have a quick question for you guys regarding TACP. Does it fall under SOCOM, I mean as far as their pipeline? Also, do they train to conduct any DA or IW besider their main mission?

PM sent.

 

[DA SWO]

I have a quick question for you guys regarding TACP. Does it fall under SOCOM, I mean as far as their pipeline? Also, do they train to conduct any DA or IW besider their main mission?

No, for the most part.

They may accompany a unit doing DA/IW; but they are enablers.

 

[Johca]

What is 'RQS'?

RQS is the abbreviation of Rescue Squadron. These days a Rescue Squadron is one of three capabilities. The Helicopter Rescue Squadron, the HC-130 fixed wing rescue squadron, and the Pararescue Squadron. At deployed locations the expeditionary rescue squadron is generally some sort composite mix of aircraft and PJs.

 

[Johca]

I am answering this based off what was put out at drill this month, and if I am wrong the fault lies squarely with me. The pipeline will go Prep Course--->Tech School--->SERE--->AST (Advanced Skills Training)--->JTAC QC. What was put out to us was that the TACP, or ROMAD, position was largely irrelevant now. The Army has guys that can maintain radios, they need JTACs to call in CAS.

Appears to be a sound mission need change. Hope it happens.

The ROMAD position began becoming irrelevant when the enlisted TACP AFSC was established in 1977 and continued to transform to being irrelevant when BALO positions were converted to enlisted full time controllers in 2005. Up until 2005 (the policy, not necessarily the being there reality) rated officers and specifically A-10 pilots were the preferred qualification for performing BALO duties to specific Army ground combat battalions.

In order to qualify as a BALO prior to 2005 (and perhaps still), a pilot had to attend a three-week school, pass a physical fitness test, and go through a local certification program which included controlling live air strikes. The first female distinguished graduate, but never operationally deployed to perform BALO duties prior to 1997 is retired Martha E. McSally, Colonel, USAF. BTW she is leading the charge to open all combat occupations and combat duties to woman on the Air Force side of the house.

I had heard this was due (in some part) to the no-kidding TACP billets at RQS's. I worked with a couple during train up, and the slots are there, but that a more formalized course (granting the JTAC qual) was one of the selling points to get them on the teams. Not 100% sure I would say that with any certainty, but it makes sense.

Perhaps but a strong argument can be made much of the new pipeline initiative and expanding into STS and PJ rescue squadron push is connected to validating and justifying PAST need and criteria now that gender is no longer a combat assignment or combat duty utilization restriction. The hurdle needing overcoming is why should TACP have “new higher” or never required before classification and mission ready standard. The reasoning to the why is connected ROMAD becoming irrelevant and lack of any physical fitness standards necessary to obtain JTAC qualification and certification and more importantly perform JTAC duties.

The question raised by “I had heard this was due” is it suggests or infers a good portion of TACP duty positions are being pushed into STS and Pararescue RQS to be utilized as small tactical team members supporting Pararescue and STS missions when the numbers of such duty positions don't support it. It also may and can give appearances of such duty positions are to give some justification and validation for the longer pipeline and implementing more robust PAST standards. Another perspective offerd for consideration having stronger influence is both ROMAD and ASOC work center duties are becoming 3-level and 5-level irrelevant as all TACP will be JTACs regardless of rank and unit of assignment. A significant enlisted AFSC classification duties and responsibilities description change. I'll wait until the next revision of the TACP CFETP and TACP classification description gets published before I'd hang my hat on any I heard this speculation as being implemented.

 

[amlove21]

entire post

Not real sure I follow.

Are TACP's coming to the RQS? You are talking at a level that is "theory" as opposed to "practice". I didn't see any inputs as far as "will we see TACP in the RQS in X time frame."

Also, since when has gender consideration been an issue? Are you implying that females are now able to be TACP?

 

[Johca]

I responding to your comment of "I had heard this was due (in some part) to the no-kidding TACP billets at RQS's. I worked with a couple during train up, and the slots are there, but that a more formalized course (granting the JTAC qual) was one of the selling points to get them on the teams.”No-kidding is not the same as just-kidding and the slots are there implies practice.

Gender isn’t an issue or a consideration however the Direct Ground Combat Exclusion Rule was rescinded this January so in this regard females are technically able to be PJs, CCT, and TACP. The 13L ALO is already open and rated female pilots have gone through the training and got qualified but not utilized operationally only because of the ground combat exclusion policy.

The rated pilot ALO training program has proven women indeed are capable of getting trained and the ALO 13L ALO training program will soon validate there are women having requisite physical strength and stamina to perform BALO duties that require the person performing such duties to have JTAC certification and experience.

Unlike PJ and CCT, TACP is lacking an award and retention of AFSC physical ability and stamina standard.Incorporating JTAC being an entry into the job-training requirement and 3-level duty performance and moving away from radio maintenance tasks does give increased war fighting need to determine, develop, and implement such standards.This will be a significant enlisted AFSC classification duties and responsibilities description change. The statement "the TACP, or ROMAD, position was largely irrelevant now"is indicationg next published revision of the TACP CFETP and TACP classification description will be significant and interesting.But then again so will the next published PJ, CCT, and SOW CFETP and classification descriptions as I’ve seen no official statement any AFSC will not be opened before 2016 or after 2016. For example the USMC put out a press release 1 February 2013 stating "At this time, infantry, reconnaissance and special operations MOSs will not be opened to females. However, female Lieutenants graduating from officer training at The Basic School will continue to be allowed to volunteer to go through the Infantry Officers Course for research purposes. Two officers are expected to participate in the upcoming IOC class beginning this March." I'm just connecting dots others put out for all to see and giving an opinion how the dots connect.

 

[DA SWO]

Some of these changes have been called for by the TACP community for years (5+), so I really don't think this is tied into the women in combat decision.

 

[Red-Dot]

The TACP career-field as a whole is really in a state of change. The pipeline is changing and morphing into what I understand is for the better. In my opinion ALO's are not needed at anything below the Brigade level, which seems to be the current trend. Additionally, ALO's should not be controlling air. Their job is to set in a TOC to liaison, provide support to Battalion and below TACP's, and give the Brigade, Division and Corp commanders advice on air power for the Army's scheme of maneuver.
As far as the PAST goes, I'm all for it it, and it should have been incorporated long ago. Just as the JTAC qual should have been made a part of the pipeline. A ROMAD is great for helping the JTAC, but in reality is not really needed. Any good JTAC worth his salt really does not need one. It would/does make better sense to embed a JTAC team (two qual'd JTAC's) with infantry,SF or whoever..... in case one of them goes down.

As far as women doing it....well....good luck.

 

[DA SWO]

The TACP career-field as a whole is really in a state of change. The pipeline is changing and morphing into what I understand is for the better. In my opinion ALO's are not needed at anything below the Brigade level, which seems to be the current trend. Additionally, ALO's should not be controlling air. Their job is to set in a TOC to liaison, provide support to Battalion and below TACP's, and give the Brigade, Division and Corp commanders advice on air power for the Army's scheme of maneuver.
As far as the PAST goes, I'm all for it it, and it should have been incorporated long ago. Just as the JTAC qual should have been made a part of the pipeline. A ROMAD is great for helping the JTAC, but in reality is not really needed. Any good JTAC worth his salt really does not need one. It would/does make better sense to embed a JTAC team (two qual'd JTAC's) with infantry,SF or whoever..... in case one of them goes down.

As far as women doing it....well....good luck.

Slightly disagree, ALO's need to go outside the wire every now and then to get a feel for what you guys do. Ride along, give someone a break;doesn't matter, just do it.